Changes to immigration rules announced by Starmer

It’s odd how people champion a fall from say 700k to 300k but net migration of zero is another similar drop.

It’s not zero movement maybe that’s the confusion, just lower again. If Labour have now decided to sell in lower immigration figures as good not bad that helps Reform too.

Plus it’s so fickle, one minute it’s all dog whistle culture wars now it’s island of strangers.

If people think voting Reform will stop immigration (or get net zero immigration) I have some beans to sell.

Philps confirmed there were no plans, agreements, research on immigration when the UK left the EU

That’s fine if you want to believe Philp go for it, I doubt you would at any other time. And you’re avoiding verifiable figures to do so.

In the end that kind of misleading stuff will aid Reform as voters switch so keep going I guess.

We are going around in circles here.

Fact remains that Philp agrees with my take, not yours, so i'll leave that with you.

Ditto to your posts.

The DA numbers are below and in public domain. They are not hidden. Bizarre you would not go with verifiable figures.

If numbers keep going up as they are smash the gangs isn’t really working is it.

You re confusing attempted crossings with actual crossings, also why are so rude in your responses, trying to goad a reaction?

Also, we don't actually know the numbers as successful ones, by default, weren't known about....

As i said, numbers of attempted crossing sank when fines introduced.

Why is what happened 20 years ago relevant to you?

At least Philp isn't being quite so partisan, i'll take his word on this.

Yes crossings are weather dependent, so numbers coming here will increase.

Fm. The numbers are below. They are in the public domain. I know it’s hard to look at figures and actually compute but there you go.

Over 100k in early 2000s all recorded.

It won’t help you and Labour when numbers keep going up over summer. That’s all in the public domain too. Good luck with that.

Lorry numbers? really? as soon as the Govt put in place the £2000 fine per migrants, numbers crashed.

Rwanda was never a workable solution, that country atm is at near war & if it was such a deterrent, why didn't Sunak enact it? and win the GE?
Even his HS at the time called the scheme Bat shit.

However, at least Philp is injecting some honesty into the debate, even if you refuse to accept it.

Economic Growth up 0.7% though i suspect you'll base that on measures Labour inherited 😂

@jasflowers Aside, its hilarious that tory supporters on here claim Rwanda, taking a few 100 per year, would be a "deterrent" but deporting back to France etc by the 1000s would not be..... v strange logic.

This is not a totally spurious claim.

Some asylum seekers and migrants had been crossing into Northern Ireland, from the UK, to avoid the UK's Rwanda deportation policy. This is partly due to legal rulings that had limited the application of the Illegal Migration Act in Northern Ireland, creating a perceived loophole. Additionally, the Good Friday Agreement and the Windsor Framework offer additional human rights protections in Northern Ireland, making it a less likely destination for those who could be sent to Rwanda.

Migrants could also take the train from Crewe/Chester to Holyhead (Angelsey) then board the Ferry to Dublin. This is why Dublin had become "tent city".

My relatives in that area used to regularly see migrants on the trains

Other routes include Heysham/Liverpool to Belfast and then across the border into Ireland

(I'm not a Tory supporter BTW.)

Not this again. Pre Brexit - lorries, peak 2000s. The 100k would have been put somewhere unless we had tent cities.

DA not a deterrent for any country. See their figures.

’Inherited’ line is not going to help Labour this summer when smash the gangs continues to fail and summer numbers keep going up. It’s only May and over a 1000 in three days.

Well, you re arguing against the former Tory HO minister & current shadow Home Sec.

Bottom line is prior to Brexit, hardly anyone crossed in a boat and we didn't have 100s of Hotels being used to house them all.

I don't think any reasonable person could possibly say this isn't a problem Labour inherited, even Philp acknowledges this.

But until we have better terms with the EU, short of using force, there is little we can do, breaking up the gangs or limiting their resources takes co-op with the EU, let alone returning migrants.

I don't understand your Reform argument - helping out?? they were a force before the GE or are you saying they are a one issue party?

People don’t really get the purpose of the DA. It’s not a deterrent and was not set up as such. The numbers are below.

Labour are still helping out Reform by focusing on the last Gov so there’s that too. They can’t keep briefing every time the numbers go over 500 crossings a day. They’ll not have enough to brief on.

As Philp said, over half the people crossing in 2019/20 had originally registered with an EU country, so could be deported, one only has to look at the figures to see that once it became common knowledge that deportation was impossible, numbers soared.

I assume Badenoch put Philp into position because he is competent? and as an ex HO minister, would be on top of his brief?

If the answer is NO, then why is he there??

Aside, its hilarious that tory supporters on here claim Rwanda, taking a few 100 per year, would be a "deterrent" but deporting back to France etc by the 1000s would not be..... v strange logic.

It's only failed if we rejoin.

I read this lovely article about population growth this morning;

We look into the Great Puffin Brexit Bonanza

https://www.channel4.com/news/how-brexit-is-boosting-britains-puffin-population

It is also a remarkable example of how Brexit in practice can allow the UK government to go against EU big agribusiness when it comes to protecting the environment.

@Goldenbear

"Did you actually believe that?"

You do know that Brexit was decided on a referendum?

.

Did you actually believe that?

What an odd response.

It just shows the DA figures.

I know you have a hard time accepting that Brexit has failed

January 2025

In 2024 Germany has asked Bulgaria to take back 8,090 people who were registered as migrants for the first time on Bulgarian territory. Bulgaria has said it is responsible for 3,297 migrants, but in reality 290 people have been returned.

Italy was supposed to take in 12,841 migrants, but in fact it took in only three.

Other EU countries, which send the most migrants to Germany, are also taking in almost no people, despite being obliged to do so. Greece has taken in 22 people, and Croatia has returned 533 people [taken back - returned means in either direction under Dublin rules which is convenient for politicians as the public assume they are talking about sending asylum seekers out of the country when it can mean outgoing or incoming], although almost 13,000 should have been.

The Secretary General of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), Carsten Linemann, said that for him this was "further proof that the asylum system in Europe is not working"

"The data speaks for itself. We need a change in migration policy. We must stop illegal migration to Germany and return people from the German borders," he said.
*
in 2024 Germany managed to return only 13 percent of the migrants that other countries were supposed to take care of, while at the same time taking back 45 percent of the people who were supposed to be returned to it.

https://fakti.bg/en/world/941309-refugee-wave-bulgaria-has-accepted-290-migrants-returned-from-germany

It’s more likely due to crossings going over 1000 in three days. Labour tend to look for a brief, anything, to the press when they go up.

Trouble is it’s only May and summer will be higher.

The fuck up that was Brexit cannot be solely blamed on the Tory Party.

Yes the Conservatives were responsible for giving the public the democratic choice of staying or leaving the EU. However the blame for Brexit lies with the 17.1 million that voted for Brexit.

All the DA figures are in the public domain. They’re as @Clavinova says. They’re very low. It’s never been used to move half of any amount of people, other countries included.

Or Brexiteers lied.