Changes to immigration rules announced by Starmer

Read the words in the quotes and look at the figures @Clavinovahas kindly provided. The numbers can’t be changed, they are publicly recorded.

I have no idea but here are the facts:

Brexit has not necessarily made deporting people harder, but it has changed the process, particularly for EU citizens. While the UK now has more control over its borders, the rules for deporting EU citizens have changed, but are similar to those for non-British citizens. The UK no longer has to follow the Dublin III Regulation, which allowed for the transfer of asylum seekers to EU member states.

After Brexit, EU citizens can be deported for the same reasons as non-British citizens.

Grounds for deportation include being convicted and sentenced to at least 12 months imprisonment, or if deportation is considered conducive to the public good.

The UK can also deport EU citizens who are considered a threat to public security or who have committed serious crimes.

Impact on the UK Immigration System:
Brexit has led to changes in the UK's immigration system, with a new points-based system for visas.

The UK no longer has to follow the Dublin III Regulation, which meant the UK could send asylum seekers to other EU member states.

The UK has the freedom to set its own immigration policies, but it also means they are now more isolated in terms of asylum and migration matters.

Well, one has to ask ones self, why would two leading Tories say that Brexit has made deporting migrants harder if it weren't true?

I know you will, but only this time otherwise it’s all attacks and disbelief.

The numbers don’t care about politics just read those.

Nope, i'll take what Philp and Stride say, because thats what is relevant to the UK, not Germany, not Italy etc etc

Aside awful what the opposition is saying, putting party politics before what is best for the UK, deriding any EU deal before even seeing it! shameful.

Their deal was terrible, e.g destroyed shell fishing in Cornwall

I’m sure you are at a loss.

Germany is still in the DA @Clavinovahas posted enough data for the U.K. too which is all publicly available.

You just have to read and take it in.

I think like other businesses they are going to have to pay their staff an appropriate amount for the job they do. Care homes are competing for staff against other low wage companies. For example where I live pays its staff a bit off minimum wage but you get to wfh 3 days. The office is nice free fruit and coffee, opportunities for progression. Mainly Mon - Fri one Sat a month. Or a comparatively hard slog in a care home, nightshifts etc. The reablement team (carers that do visits post hospital stays) has no issues recruiting but are a grade 4 council position so are on nearly £15 an hour and a really good pension.

I’ve worked in a care home ( just as a domestic) and there are lots of good parts, some of the residents were lovely but obviously gutting when they pass away. The reality is though I get paid more now to sit on my arse with a laptop as cleaning / care / childcare isn’t really valued.

We are talking about the UK and its immigration figures, 2 senior members of the opposition both say Brexit has damaged our ability to deport failed asylum seekers.

I'm at a loss as to why this is so hard to comprehend.

As the Secretary General of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), Carsten Linemann said in the quoted article on this issue
"The data speaks for itself”

Just reading the numbers is enough.

It’s all publicly available.

Well, there certainly seems to be a reluctance to believe the Shadow HS and the Shadow Chancellor from the Tory supporters here on MN

Both were very clear on Dublin - that Rwanda was the response to being out of Dublin, though lets look again at how many deported under the Rwanda scheme?

Two of the most senior posts on the opposition benches, its not "Confirmation Bias" its "blindingly obvious" to quote Stride.

I think it’s confirmation bias. Which is a strange one when it’s politicians that some will usually avoid believing. All the actual figures are there. But they do need to be read and realised.

We are talking about the UK, not EU asylum applications.

So back on track - according to you, Philp is incompetent/lazy/unsuitable to be a minister, either Shadow or in Govt?

Doesn't say much for Sunak or Badenoch who appointed him into these roles.

Mel Stride also backs up Philp.

Shadow Chancellor Mel Stride says leaked recording of Chris Philp, of him admitting the UK can't return asylum seekers to Europe post-Brexit (despite promises made at the time), is "blindingly obvious".

Philps confirmed there were no plans, agreements, research on immigration when the UK left the EU

I don't think he did - this House of Commons Library report was published before the general election in 2019 - highlighting that only 7% of UK return requests under the Dublin Regulation 2015 - 2018 resulted in a transfer back to the EU - whereas the UK accepted 33% of requests (mostly family reunion requests).

The research refers to policy proposals of the May Government’s Immigration White Paper and also refers to 'contentious' reform proposals for the Dublin Regulation which the UK did not want to opt in to;

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/what-is-the-dublin-iii-regulation-will-it-be-affected-by-brexit/

I

Have you looked at the numbers of x channel boats pre-Brexit?

Yes - I have discussed it multiple times.
Have you seen this chart from the European Commission?

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Asylum_applications_-_annual_statistics

415,000 first-time asylum seekers in 2020 - 873,000 in 2022, over 1 million in 2023, over 900,000 in 2024. Do you think Ursula von der Leyen or anyone else should resign?

As far as I can see, Chris Philp was parliamentary under-secretary for immigration, in his first ministerial role, rather than a senior minister at the time. He wouldn't be my first choice for Home Secretary but I guess he's fine for a shadow ministerial role. I would need to listen to the whole of the conversation he had, not just an edited clip in any case.

Right. Even one of my neighbours, at a low level- affable older chap and aghast at this and that going on in this country etc etc, a stalwart of the cricket club and wears a poppy etc etc, but bought a little "house" for renting out, divided it into three units (seems more like storage units from the photo) and rents it out to the Borough Council to house asylum seekers. Making a very tidy income apparently and the council do all the maintenance, upkeep, keeping it constantly occupied and so on. Would he really like them to change a thing when he is making bank from the status quo? And he is small fry profiting at the lowest level.

That does sound different, I’d not change all things but there’s been heavy investment in the don’t question uncontrolled crime supported entry here. Accusations of pretty much anything (racism, far right, culture wars) so it can continue.

A lot of people make money from it and it’s hard to change. Politically it’ll be the outlier party that does it so there’s a lot of people not wanting to be out of jobs.

If the UK manages to get out of this cycle then people won’t believe how much calmer and controlled it is. They won’t vote it out again.

I find our immigration rules quite draconian and sometimes counterproductive, but, unlike the UK, they are aimed at protecting NZ citizens. NZ citizens have the right to a family life, for example, which ordinary UK ones patently do not, as they quickly find when they try to return home with their foreign spouse. In NZ my foreign spouse could buy a house with me but most migrants cannot, because housing stock is limited, etc etc. It's a very different approach.

Rwanda agreed to take around 500 per year for 5 years, how is taking 1 or 2 % of all x channel migrants a "deterrent"?

Migrants not seeking to cross the ch are not housed in tents, perhaps if they were housed properly, they wouldn't be seeking to come here??

So who is patrolling these razor wire encampments? you happy to have one near you, housing lets say 10,000 migrants? or do you propose 100s of such camps, dotted all over the country?

Vote winner there!!!

Any ideas on the sanitary arrangements required? basic medical, cooking & recreational facilities?

EU migrants coming here and living in caravans etc were working, seasonal and earning a lot of money, they weren't imprisoned but in cases where they were badly treated, thats down to UK lack of enforcement of our own employment laws.

Thanks for saying the country that’s very interesting. I wasn’t aware. I was going to ask if you had many people try to arrive by crossing and it seems you’ve had a few but they’ve been turned back.

I understand why the system we have looks so uncontrolled and reliant on criminals selling movement, I have experienced the norm of control o/s and I feel the same.

Eastern, we have a refugee quota not to keep down numbers but to ensure we bring in enough refugees, as we do not get enough asylum applications. New Zealand.

Why do you think 1 year post settlement for citizenship is crazy? Plenty of born citizens wouldn't join the army and die for their country.

The thing that is hanging over high earners or global talent retention is the EU and FOM.

The UK can conclude a deal with the EU in certain sectors that are needed. It doesn’t necessarily need to widen access to ILR. It looks like it will narrow it. It could equally conclude deals with other jurisdictions to address shortages or requirements for certain sectors.

None of this is to suggest that the UK will ever have FOM with the EU again.