Changes to immigration rules announced by Starmer

Another erudite post that sums it up nicely.

Nailed it.

hahaha yes, I once had a team mate complain about immigrants like me and my husband being a drain on the system. We were both higher rate tax payers, team mate was self employed cash in hand to commit benefit fraud and would regularly moan I had been given a flat in an expensive area of Hackney. It was odd really as I wasn’t aware that someone else was paying my mortgage or that someone else had saved the deposit.

I've recently had the opportunity to review the latest statistics on long-term international migration, published just days ago by the Office for National Statistics (ONS). The findings are quite striking, and they challenge the common perception that asylum seekers constitute only a small fraction of immigration to the UK.
Key statistics that caught my attention include:

• The net migration figure from 2021 to 2024 stands at 11 million, with 1.2 million of these individuals being asylum seekers, including those who arrived by small boats. This represents 10% of the total net migration figure.
• 13% of those granted settled status in 2023 and 2024 did so through the asylum route. Furthermore, these individuals are typically eligible to apply for citizenship after just one year.

These numbers suggest that asylum seekers make up a more significant proportion of immigration than is often assumed. It's also worth considering that not all visa holders, particularly those on work visas, may be interested in pursuing citizenship, as they sort after settlement for the freedom to change employers without being tied to their sponsor. However, refugees, on the other hand, are highly likely to take up citizenship, with nearly 100% doing so.
As a result, it's estimated that 1-2 in every 10 new UK citizens will be eligible to access social housing, pensions, and Universal Credit immediately. Compared to individuals on work or study visas, asylum seekers do represent a significant financial burden on the government, especially given the current funding challenges.

I hope that the forthcoming the white paper, will address the issue of refugee citizenships and consider applying any changes retrospectively. However, I'm unsure whether such measures should also apply to work and study visas. Many highly capable individuals hold these visas but may not yet qualify for the "Global Talent T1 visa" or may have been deterred from applying due to the expensive and often subjective application process.
These talented individuals remain highly competitive and in demand globally, and they have the potential to drive growth in the UK economy while keeping UK research competitive on the world stage. I am concerned that any unfavourable changes to the visa system could inadvertently drive these talent away.

apparently, Finland, Italy, France, and Germany are becoming more and more popular with international students.

In the past few months, I've met three different research groups at university. One group is researching biomaterials to cure blindness, other research causes of T1 diabetes and the third was about investigating what genes cause melanoma.

The majority of the research group members were from outside of Finland. I'd say if there were 15 people in every research group, at least 10 were from elsewhere. India, Pakistan, UK, Poland, Sweden, Denmark, Spain. And I spoke with one of the professors and she said that they're starting to attract more and more talent now that USA is less desirable and actively deporting and detaining researchers for doing the wrong type of research. She was very excited about the propects.

And now Trump is at it too trying to ban c7,000 students from Harvard including Princess Elisabeth of Belgium. More savvy countries are going to have huge boosts to their higher ed income.

Sorry some posters feel unwelcome. It’s not true, you really, really are!

Response to the immigration rules in the Higher ed sector are really interesting though. I was already worried about the lost income, lost respect and diminished research profile at our Universities following the double impact of Brexit, and then the spouse rules. But I hadn’t thought through the flip side of the other countries benefitting from our lost student base. I did a bit of research into which countries are likely to benefit the most. A Brunel university representative was quoted as saying US, Canada, Australia and UK still lead the field but apparently, Finland, Italy, France and Germany are becoming more and more popular with international students. Also a rise in international student interest in Belgium, Turkey and Malta – especially for medical training.

We have been holding our leading role in terms of research quality but for how much longer as the pool dwindles?

Short sightedness, but I guess the silver lining is that sadly maybe these policies really will help keep floating voters away from Reform?

Yes no more of bringing in partners for this nonsense. Also taking the loan and defaulting needs to be stopped and some of the dodgy universities need to go

Yes absolutely awful and why haven’t we upskiilled our own population in the first place. It maddens me so much

I'm really not when I have not been able to see a GP since 2019.

@GlutesthatSalute why haven’t you? Have all GP practices near you refused to add you as a patient?

I'm sorry to hear that's your experience @glutesthatsalute I'm the child of a British father and a foreign mother, and I've lived in both countries.

My mother naturalised when I was in my teens. Her professional qualification wasn't recognised - but I think that's improved now. And socially, I know she always felt welcome here. She always identified with her own country, of course!

As a child of 2 countries I find the UK much more accepting of us half-and-halfers than my other country is. I feel fully accepted as British here, and people find my heritage interesting not a negative. I spent a lot of my childhood here, which I think is what sets your feeling of 'home', but speaking to friends who did the opposite (same nationalities, spent more of their childhood in my other country) they feel far less accepted and 'at home' in the other country than I do here.

Interesting read..observer.co.uk/news/politics/article/is-britain-paying-the-price-of-having-the-worlds-costliest-work-visa-fees

@GlutesthatSaluteis it more the recent changes that are causing issues? With the ILR changing and just general uncertainty?

I do think some of Labour’s proposals will put off higher earners. As they will want certainty to start families etc

I'm really not when I have not been able to see a GP since 2019- and that was in my own country, 11,000 miles from here. I have to pay again in order to get seen here privately. So I am not getting a bargain. I get stitched up for a service that I have never been able to access. HTH.

Nice words, I do mean that unsarcastically despite how it looks on paper, strawberry, but sadly not reflective of reality. Foreign spouses are NOT welcome here, and British citizens who marry foreigners are stranded in their tens of thousands in foreign countries unable to return home. All in an effort to keep down those bruising immigration figures. And the fact that it's your own citizens thus punished just does not matter.

I do see the real problems caused by unfettered immigration and particularly the lack of integration and assimilation here, but as usual, your government is targeting the wrong people.

Getting 50% of young people into university was such a blinkered, unthinkingly idealistic, one-size-fits-all leftie dream.

Someone who has barely scraped A levels won't benefit from further academic study.

They'll benefit from - and thrive at - a great apprenticeship or training which gets them into a well-respected, well paid, skilled job.

It is a betrayal of young people to funnel them into low quality degrees, leaving them with £10s of thousands of debt (and a poorer state due to loans not repaid) and no job opportunities.

@strawberrybubblegum "We need to reduce the number of students going to university to do pointless degrees by improving non-University options."

You are singing off my hymn sheet.

We don't want people with Mickey Mouse degrees.

We want people with practical qualifications who can mend and fix items - , plumbers, bricklayers, electricians, guys who mend white goods, hairdressers, roofers, etc

Bring back apprenticeships !

Yes, quite!

@GlutesthatSalute "We legal immigrants who are paying the NHS Immigrant Surcharge currently at a rate of £1035 a year for imaginary services, "

That £1035 is peanuts.

The cost to the NHS for removing one of your DC's appendices would be £2,222. and that's just the surgery, not the nursing costs plus drugs and dressings and other aftercare..

The cost of removing your gall bladder would be £6719, again not factoring in the nursing care, drugs & dressings etc.

You're getting a bargain.

I'm sorry to hear you are being impacted. It's really tough, and it probably will impact what people decide to do. The backlash over the earlier figures was pretty high and likely contributed to an electoral loss. I didn't feel that strongly about them, but I do think that level is unsustainable. It's really hard for those caught up in that personally though. I can see you were paying in to the system too.

I'm so sorry to hear that @GlutesthatSalute . I do understand it feeling personal, and that changing your choices.

Please don't carry the feeling that British people ever thought badly of you. You were always welcome: a foreign-born spouse, and part of our society. You will be welcome again if you or your children come back.

Best wishes for your move.

Who has told you that you here for the benefits?

Why do you finding difficult to comprehend that migrants come in all shape and sizes? Some are here for the freebies, others aren’t.

You seem to identify with the former while claiming you are the latter.

Or else you need some vinegar with your chips.

University fees were £9000 in 2012. There's been high inflation since then, so in real terms that was worth the equivalent of £13,500 now.

But current fees are only £9,535. That's a 30% decrease in real terms.

That's the root of the University funding problem. Propping it up with ever-increasing international students (taking a cash handout now in return for selling out our future) is unsustainable.

We need to reduce the number of students going to university to do pointless degrees by improving non-University options. Have a smaller number of higher quality degrees, which are actually worth students forking out higher fees for. And potentially also increase direct grants from the government to universities, only when the decrease in numbers and increase in educational quality actually makes that a worthwhile state investment.

Tony Blair was wrong, frankly.

Eastern, this sponger is outta here soon (as soon as the sale of our house is finalised)-- not angry anymore, but definitely over it. We legal immigrants who are paying the NHS Immigrant Surcharge currently at a rate of £1035 a year for imaginary services, in addition to the usual tax and NI from our wages, do love being told again and again that we are sucking at the British public tit. It comes out of our family budget when we are donating about £3-4k in fees to your Home Office coffers with every visa renewal for me every couple of years. Love being told by Daily Mail-lickers that I am here to take benefits that I am wholly ineligible for. There is no sense of security that under any future kneejerk anti-immigrant rule changes I would be able to even remain here with my English husband and our children. That last one is the real decider for me.

Just speaking to someone o/s post covid there was incredibly high immigration and subsequent pressure on houses there too.

It's a tough one, especially if it's lower end income jobs people may choose not to do. Universities I do care about and we do education well for the most part, but not every visa will be necessary.