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Politics

Physician Associates - Bereaved family vs GMC

37 replies

AnneCarmegie · 21/04/2025 11:22

The family of a young patient who died after being misdiagnosed by a PA is taking the GMC to court
Please read , donate and share with your family and friends. This could happen to any of us .
anaesthetistsunited.com/our-daughter-died-in-error/

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Spacecowboys · 21/04/2025 17:38

The GMC don't actually want to regulate PA's. Being forced into it I think.
I don't understand how the prescription was issued to this young woman. PA s cannot prescribe. There is no system which will allow them too. So a discussion with a GP must have happened. A failure to ensure proper supervision isn't simply the individual PA s fault, it's systemic. GPs rarely have the time to manage their own workload. Never mind someone else's.

AnneCarmegie · 21/04/2025 17:07

Will I get a PA who studies Art with a few weeks working as an HCA before starting the course or who one who was an experienced nurse ? It’s pot luck . I’m not happy to accept the risk www.swansea.ac.uk/postgraduate/taught/medicine/physician-associate-studies-mpas/

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AnneCarmegie · 21/04/2025 17:04

lilyflower1803 · 21/04/2025 16:44

That’s a lie, To become a physician associate you'll need to complete a postgraduate diploma or master's qualification in physician associate studies.
For this, you'll usually need a first undergraduate degree in a health or life sciences subject, such as:

  • biochemistry
  • medical science
  • healthcare science
  • nursing
The postgraduate qualification takes 2 years to complete. It combines study with practical clinical experience in general, community and emergency medicine. Some universities now offer an undergraduate degree that includes an integrated Master of Physician Associate Studies (MPAS). These courses take 4 years to complete. If you're already a qualified medical professional, contact universities offering the postgraduate course about their entry requirements. From gov.uk

What’s a lie . There’s nothing about the PA studies under or postgraduate course that I don’t already know . PAs can get onto the course with an Art degree and no clinical experience. I’ve seen it ! It’s been revealed by FOIs , it’s been covered by several news articles. The PAs tell you this in their fb group chats . You don’t HAVE to have a life science undergraduate degree. In fact , even if they all had a bioscience degree the PA course is still a standalone unaccredited course . NONE of the courses are accredited by the GMC and some of the courses don’t meet the standards altogether . The GMC have recently said this .
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20240331/281844353644642

https://x.com/medicalmodelbri/status/1883649145896067466?s=46

Physician Associates - Bereaved family vs GMC
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lilyflower1803 · 21/04/2025 16:50

Though mind you I don’t disagree with you in the sense that more supervision is needed in lots of healthcare roles. But the problem comes from funding, time and support

lilyflower1803 · 21/04/2025 16:44

AnneCarmegie · 21/04/2025 15:14

Unfortunately the coroner disagrees with you . This is the 3rd coroners report out of 6 deaths involving PA management of a patient. All 6 patients thought that they had seen a Dr . The coroner said that If nothing is done , more patients will be at risk of dying .
The majority of PAs don’t have clinical experience. Most of their clinical experience comes from Healthcare support worker jobs paid /voluntary . Only 8-11 % come from nursing backgrounds. Many got onto the course with Art , Chemistry , Events management , Law , computer science degrees . It’s pot luck as to who you end up seeing .
MAPs don’t study medicine -as per GMC and are non - medically qualified - as per recent BMAvs GMC ruling . Their training isn’t sufficient for them to diagnose undifferentiated patients . They don’t know what they don’t know .
Many of them are working completely independently and unsupervised with the GP blindly signing prescriptions this is from the horses mouth . Listen to this podcast

https://ockham.healthcare/episode-40-ria-and-andy-physicians-associates/

This isn’t supervision .

That’s a lie, To become a physician associate you'll need to complete a postgraduate diploma or master's qualification in physician associate studies.
For this, you'll usually need a first undergraduate degree in a health or life sciences subject, such as:

  • biochemistry
  • medical science
  • healthcare science
  • nursing
The postgraduate qualification takes 2 years to complete. It combines study with practical clinical experience in general, community and emergency medicine. Some universities now offer an undergraduate degree that includes an integrated Master of Physician Associate Studies (MPAS). These courses take 4 years to complete. If you're already a qualified medical professional, contact universities offering the postgraduate course about their entry requirements. From gov.uk
AnneCarmegie · 21/04/2025 15:41

ReenaGee · 21/04/2025 11:47

I saw a nurse practitioner recently after trying to book a GP appt. Was given propranolol for health anxiety despite arguing this and having very real symptoms. Went back weeks later and saw a different nurse practitioner who told me I probably had a trapped nerve (unlikely to cause arm, leg, and face weakness) or again, health anxiety. Referred for counselling. Then a few weeks later saw a GP, who was looking to see what bloods I had done for my one sided weakness and brain fog I originally reported with. None. Turns out I had extremely low folate and b12 and peripheral neuropathy, and have been referred to neurology in case it's unrelated. No idea if I just got lucky with the GP or if they were just better trained.

The GP has studied a medical degree then at least another 5 yrs to become a GP so is better trained

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AnneCarmegie · 21/04/2025 15:19

lilyflower1803 · 21/04/2025 11:41

You have to be careful not to make this a witch hunt about PA’s as the NHS needs educated individuals. These are still people with usually a bio med undergrad degree or similar and a 2 years masters degree - educated and valued people in our underfunded and crippled NHS system and ensure this remains a failure of the government. Do not drive more people out of healthcare.

This court case is necessary to clarify what PAs/AAs can and can’t do. A national scope is needed . It benefits everyone . PAs, AAs , Drs , patients therefore everyone should donate .
It addresses some of the coroners main concerns and keeps patients safe . The GMC is refusing to regulate . They have no scope to regulate to . The majority of PAs haven’t even bothered to register with the GMC and they don’t have to until December 2026 . It’s a mess and it needs sorting immediately www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Pamela-Marking-Prevention-of-Future-Deaths-Report-2025-0107.pdf

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AnneCarmegie · 21/04/2025 15:14

lilyflower1803 · 21/04/2025 11:41

You have to be careful not to make this a witch hunt about PA’s as the NHS needs educated individuals. These are still people with usually a bio med undergrad degree or similar and a 2 years masters degree - educated and valued people in our underfunded and crippled NHS system and ensure this remains a failure of the government. Do not drive more people out of healthcare.

Unfortunately the coroner disagrees with you . This is the 3rd coroners report out of 6 deaths involving PA management of a patient. All 6 patients thought that they had seen a Dr . The coroner said that If nothing is done , more patients will be at risk of dying .
The majority of PAs don’t have clinical experience. Most of their clinical experience comes from Healthcare support worker jobs paid /voluntary . Only 8-11 % come from nursing backgrounds. Many got onto the course with Art , Chemistry , Events management , Law , computer science degrees . It’s pot luck as to who you end up seeing .
MAPs don’t study medicine -as per GMC and are non - medically qualified - as per recent BMAvs GMC ruling . Their training isn’t sufficient for them to diagnose undifferentiated patients . They don’t know what they don’t know .
Many of them are working completely independently and unsupervised with the GP blindly signing prescriptions this is from the horses mouth . Listen to this podcast

https://ockham.healthcare/episode-40-ria-and-andy-physicians-associates/

This isn’t supervision .

Episode 40: Ria and Andy – Physician Associates - Ockham Healthcare

Ria Agarwal and Andy King are both physician associates, a role which remains controversial in general practice. In our latest podcast we begin an occasional series about this role by talking to Ria and Andy about the scope of their role, their route i...

https://ockham.healthcare/episode-40-ria-and-andy-physicians-associates/

OP posts:
ReenaGee · 21/04/2025 11:47

I saw a nurse practitioner recently after trying to book a GP appt. Was given propranolol for health anxiety despite arguing this and having very real symptoms. Went back weeks later and saw a different nurse practitioner who told me I probably had a trapped nerve (unlikely to cause arm, leg, and face weakness) or again, health anxiety. Referred for counselling. Then a few weeks later saw a GP, who was looking to see what bloods I had done for my one sided weakness and brain fog I originally reported with. None. Turns out I had extremely low folate and b12 and peripheral neuropathy, and have been referred to neurology in case it's unrelated. No idea if I just got lucky with the GP or if they were just better trained.

lilyflower1803 · 21/04/2025 11:41

You have to be careful not to make this a witch hunt about PA’s as the NHS needs educated individuals. These are still people with usually a bio med undergrad degree or similar and a 2 years masters degree - educated and valued people in our underfunded and crippled NHS system and ensure this remains a failure of the government. Do not drive more people out of healthcare.

lilyflower1803 · 21/04/2025 11:35

Seems like failure of the system to ensure proper pathways and this particular individual being ‘overconfident’ instead of checking with a colleague than the PA profession in itself. In the article she writes about not leaving an NQT by themselves, I’m an ECT and was left totally by myself, not my fault and luckily I’m not overconfident and would use my initiative when unsure, but a failure of the system definitely and a failure of the children in my care to not ensure proper support. It is unfair to tarnish all with the same brush. Same thing could be applied to advanced nurse practitioners being able to diagnose and treat in GP surgeries. Our healthcare system is on its knees and if you can get valued individuals through the door to help then please do, of course, like every profession- there will be bad practitioners and it is awful and horrific if this happens. But you cannot tarnish all with the same brush.

Obvious condolences to this family who lost their daughter due to malpractice and system support failure. If their colleagues knew they were overconfident- why were they not more closely monitored with more support put in place?

AnneCarmegie · 21/04/2025 11:27

Also happening in anaesthesia. x.com/kcisc/status/1914013735167140233?s=46

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