Physician Associates - Bereaved family vs GMC

At last the government has paid attention to publicand professional concerns about physician assistants.
See below Great Ormobd Street criticised for using PAs to replace doctors on the medical rota .
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/great-ormond-street-hospital-physician-associates-staffing-b2801148.html

Glad to see BMA took out full page ad in tbe metro stating the measly salary fir a newly qualified doctor cpmpated to that of a PA.

🤔

I agree @Emptyandsad . They call themselves “one of the medic team” in my practice. I’ve taken to asking their role.

It's hard for GPs to find work at the moment - this at a time when we're told there's a massive shortage of doctors. I have heard, anecdotally, of practices who employ PAs to see a large percentage take of patients under the nominal (but not proper) supervision of one GP in the practice. S/he can't possibly be supervising by considering if the diagnosis and treatment was appropriate by means of a swift glance at the paperwork review for all the patients the PAs have seen. There are plenty of cases reported as well of PAs not informing the patients that they're not doctors. "Hi, I'm Brian, I'm your clinician", leaving the patient thinking they've seen a doctor. They should make it clear to the patients (most of whom have no idea what a PA is, what their training involved, what the limitations on their practice is, how their knowledge and experience compares to a doctor).

I'd rather see a nurse, because I understand what a nurse is much better than I understand what a PA is.

PAs get paid less than GPs (but considerably more that newly qualified Drs)

Go figure...

There are plenty of doctors looking for work but trusts want to pay fewer of them.

Years ago I remember an absolute furore when it came out that a consultant surgeon had allowed a very experienced theatre nurse to do part of an appendectomy, under his supervision.

Yet here we are now.

When you think about it… Drs work very hard for their post graduate exams. They’re very very difficult and represent a high level of knowledge

PAs don’t have that. They have an undergraduate qualification- so there is no way they equate to a Dr

My cancer was missed by a nurse specialist and a paramedic specialist. Both very nice people- but following algorithms rather than using actual knowledge, and also the instinct that Drs develop with clinical experience

I'm sorry. My late husbands was, by an ANP, delay didn't affect outcome. I just don't think any of them have the training or experience in diagnostics that doctors do and that is with all respect to nurses and paramedics (if I was bleeding by the side of the road I'd probably prefer a paramedic to a GP to be fair)

The PA model is potentially much worse and they have no place in assessing undifferentiated patients.

They really are selling themselves short. They'd be band 8A minimum doing advanced practice instead.

The use of PAs and AAs is turning into a health scandal. I'm sure it will end up being part of a two tier health service: NHS free treatment - you get a PA. Private patient who can pay - you see a medically qualifed doctor.

I always ask if I'm seeking a medically qualified doctor and I dread the thought of being taken into an operating theatre and having an AA while I'm unconscious.

This must vary by location. Nurse prescribers in my workplace are band 7, so would have no need to do PA training .

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/physician-associates/

A little light reading….

That's interesting. I don't know a single nurse ( and I know many) who has done or would do a PA course rather than a masters in advanced practice .

It may well be the case that a PA provides a lesser service that eg a GP. But it's not like if PAs are limited or done away with you will get a GP. You will get nothing. People don't want to pay more taxes and resent paying even what they do.
No one (well not enough people) want to pay for anyone else's health care. The NHS is a second rate service for people who can't or won't buy something better. It's a safety net for the poor at best.

PAs are possibly between a rock and a hard place, but they are cheaper than Drs and that is why they exist.

Its ridiculous. How can they be expected to act as a Dr, and I know that some of them are - purely because of pressure on the system.
I tried to return to work as a Dr and there is no structured path.

We are losing out on Drs who’ve taken a career break - for perfectly legitimate reasons. And we are putting our health at risk by seeing people acting as Drs, but without the training of Drs.

My cancer was missed by a nurse specialist and a paramedic specialist. Both very nice people- but following algorithms rather than using actual knowledge, and also the instinct that Drs develop with clinical experience

Doubt you'd get an experienced nurse , they would do an ACP masters over 3 years which includes prescribing.