Illegal immigration - thread no. 101

But how can we viably take them all? How many is too many?

I'm not being heartless - just practical. If they are migrants who are genuinely fleeing war torn countries that's horrendous and we are incredibly privileged to not be in that situation. Of course you have sympathy but how long can we continue to provide what we don't have?

The videos I've seen on SM like those mentioned in the OP are economic migrants - they're young men all laughing and cheering and holding iPhones - they're not fleeing war torn countries.

Alternatively the way to disrupt the people smuggling business is to detain and then deport all illegal immigrants. There'd be a lot less demand to be smuggled into the UK if illegal economic migrants knew they had no chance of staying in the UK.

@BobbyBiscuits Genuine question - what happens when they enter Europe, are they not processed at this point? And if so, would they really not have any travel documents?

I selected Sudan as it's riven by Civil War. It could equally have been Syria, Iraq and any number of 'failed states'.

There are pretty well NO viable safe routes.

Our streets are full of Turkish barber shops which cant possibly be properly employing and training all the chaps who hang out there. Legal routes would be no good to many of the immigrants I see as they are often enonomic migrants.

They could get a job with a work visa that pays the minimum needed to be self-sufficient in this country? Or sign up to study something and better their prospects and then get a job here? Those are legal routes to immigrate into this country.

Or if cost of living is too high and earning potential too low and for some reason they are unable to upskill via a course in the UK, they could go to any safe country with lower COL where earning less will make them self-sufficient. The country doesn't have to be universally perfect, just safe for them.

The UK isn't a rehab centre for broken people from all over the world and it's not our job to fix everyone from everywhere else. We are allowed to have boundaries and limits on what we are willing to do, like every other country worldwide does (except possibly Sweden).

As the song goes, You can't hug every cat.

I honestly don't know the answer to that - what are the reasons for specifically Sudan not having a legal route?

In an ideal world we would take in and look after everyone being persecuted wouldn't we? But we don't live in that world. Services need paying for by the taxpayers. There needs to be enough housing/schools/ infrastructure. And there isn't - not even for the people who live here now.

If you are from Sudan, have a real fear of persecution based on your ethnicity, and have relatives in the UK by what legal route can you join them?

Because they don't have proper ID or travel documents and they don't meet traditional visa requirements. Nobody is choosing to use smugglers over getting a visa?!

That's awful. These people are human beings but the way some people speak of them you'd think they were another species.

Agree:

Present-day Sweden carries the dubious distinction of having the highest rate of gangland killings in Europe. It boasts the lowest average age of serious offenders, with children in their low teens being arrested for murder. Increasing segments of suburbs are officially classified as “especially vulnerable areas,” where it is “hard, bordering on impossible” for the police to operate. In layman’s terms, these are no-go zones, where local clans rule and where first responders will not enter without flak jackets and police escort.

Sadly a lot of people (I'd like to say bleeding heart liberals but maybe that's too reductive) have their head buried in the sand and will only sit up and take notice when it's too late. Probably when the above type of behaviour hits their town.

Sorry that was in response to this quote.

Yes, and obviously it's a sad situation. There is something very wrong that they'd rather beg for money than get a job. Whether that is a problem with them personally or the system I'm not sure. And they disappear (probably to their homes) when the high street quietens down, they're not all homeless I don't think. There are professional beggars run by gangs unfortunately - it's a thing. I don't think giving them money really helps the situation.

So although I have sympathy for their situation I still don't want them on my high street. I don't want to see any beggars because it's shit isn't it?

@Azureshores Perhaps Sweden is an example we should heed.

https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/sweden-immigrants-crisis/

The high street in our "naice" town now has several regular immigrant beggars

That would be other human beings then would it?

What are pp talking about: "there should be legal routes to come here"?
Pretty sure there ARE legal routes to come here. But most immigrants know they won't get in that way so take their chances illegally instead.

Do we really want every Tom, Dick and Harry coming here - criminals? Unskilled people with nothing to offer the economy? The people who think we should allow whomever wants to come here to have at it - what do you see happening to the infrastructure of the country if this is the case? Do you realise we have a housing crisis? That people are waiting months for hospital/dentist appointments - if you are lucky enough to get one. That the country is on its knees with crippling numbers out of work?

I'd suggest those of you who don't have a problem with it aren't yet feeling the impact of this crazy situation. In our city an encampment of tents has recently been moved on (after the council had to obtain a court order, get bailiffs involved etc). They have simply moved 50 yards down the road. That area has become a no go zone now after previously being an attractive part of the city.

Beggars line the route to the city walking amongst the traffic shaking a cup - this was not a thing even just a few years ago. The high street in our "naice" town now has several regular immigrant beggars - it's shocking how quickly things have deteriorated.

Yes they are thriving businesses worth billions, hence SM campaigns, marketing and even the ability to offer a better option which they call ‘VIP’ service and costs more.

As for the U.K. we are comparatively an attractive option, why do you think we’re not?

@BobbyBiscuits they end up setting fire to themselves. But that never reaches the news.

Some how along the way, we have forgotten our humanity. It's vile the rhetoric around this subject.

People talk about " smugglers". Even that is a stupid word. They are dealers, they deal in people.
This nonsense about Britain being a soft touch is well....nonsense.

I’d say the cause of the problem is our politicians. They can resolve the problem , they don’t want to. Choose better next time.

How many millions a year would you encourage to use these safe routes.

You wouldn’t be able to meet the demand. You’d have to consider how many would apply. Are you assuming it’s the same figure as crossings?

It is best managed by disincentivising people.
Why is it so important for so many to come here from France?
Why are people choosing to pay people smugglers thousands more than it would cost to come in via a visa? Plenty of people come here using a visa.