Président Macron's speech tonight. (with English subtitles, I hope)

What do they get in return?

Nothing I suppose if you choose to discount the UK’s support in their various wars over the last 30 years.

Thank you, what I see are people reacting emotionally and angrily. In reality this is the push European leaders need. Now they are reporting that Germany deciding to loosen the purse strings will boost Germany's troubled economy, so they needed Trump to push them to increase spending to improve their security while fixing their economy?

As you rightly said European leaders were warned multiple times over the years and have lots of time but continue to faff around now we act like this just came out of nowhere.

I see the US's perspective as well, why should they continue to shoulder the bulk while European countries use their money for other things? Germany's army was so badly kitted they had to use broomsticks for training but they knew the US would be there to cover so they didn't have my urgency: https://www.newsweek.com/germany-cant-explain-use-broomstick-instead-guns-nato-exercise-307902

We all applaud Germany's fiscal responsibility, the US needs it too, the US's budget deficit is now nearly $2 trillion a year, imagine that. They now spend over $800bn a year just for interest payments on their debt so yes I see why they have said enough is enough.

What do they get in return? Europeans sneering at and looking down on Americans.

Macron has been trying to step into Merkel's shoes since she left and he wants to position France as the leading country for the EU military. Germany is still the biggest economy but due to the multiple leadership changes since Merkel they are in a dicey spot and I see lots of back and forth justling for influence between them.

I also wonder how the UK will fit into all this from outside the EU. The UK will have to increase defense spending before the recent 2.5% that Starmer announced and the question is where is the extra money coming from? It has to come from somewhere, either more cuts or increase taxes. The UK risks losing more relevance over the next few years of the EU army goes ahead as the third power after the US and China. Starmer is trying to maintain a good relationship with Trump and play a role in ending the war but at the end of the day money talks and if the UK can't spend to match others it will fall behind.

For all Macron's posing as the big guy they've not actually "saved" anything yet, and I'd be amazed if French politicians were ever prepared to do anything unless it directly benefited France

Also worth remembering that in WW2 their sainted President didn't even hang around but scuttled off to the UK's protection, and even with Iraq they played both sides to the point where some ministers had to be kept out of the planning

What announcement?

I am following the announcement today for example.

It's in line with what I thought would happen so far.

@sleepwouldbenice yes I am. What are your expectations?

Aren't you just a little bundle of delight 🌵

Have you read any recent comments by European leaders?

BBC live streaming the meeting. Hopefully by tomorrow we will have a clearer idea of who will do what.

This is pretty scary

Don't twist what I said d, I clearly said 3 years was bad

But exaggerating a basic fact shows your overall approach quite clearly

Trump won't even commit to security guarantees to prevent Russia from invading Ukraine again.

Why does Europe ask the US for this and not step up and do it instead?

These speeches are one thing, if it's not backed by their own security guarantee it's just words on a stage.

EU will spend more over time, the US voters wanted that anyway.

It's not irrelevant to point out how insanely weird Macron is, since you trust him with your future.

The 'insanely weird' leaders are in USA and Russia.

@CrocsNotDocs let’s not derail this thread

And how does this make what he said in his video wrong?

He is a 47 year old man who has stuck with the woman who groomed and manipulated him as a child. The fact that he hasn’t realised this and has clung to her is a huge red flag. She is an abuser and his judgement is terrible. The longevity of their relationship doesn’t change this. He is her victim and can’t see it.

I would be more tolerant of the relationship had they met when he was 25 and he had relationships before her.

It's called playing the man and not the ball.

Because people can’t mature, learn or change can they? We are all stuck in time as our 15 yr old selves 😒

Speeches are not meaning much atm, intel and other gaps cannot be met.

EU will step up on spending which was wanted by US anyway.

Oh for goodness sake. If you are going to contribute, at least attempt to make it relevant

What a fatuous and irrelevant comment

The US was once widely regarded as the leader of the free world. Now, the entire world is looking down on you - some in horror, some with delight, but all in astonishment at just how quickly a leading democracy can descend into a failed state.

It is not the fact that the US is asking Europe to step up that concerns us. It is the extent to which you have plunged into the abyss. Far from prioritising itself, we see the US destroying itself in front of our very eyes.

@daisychain01 I think you are right, we don’t need to make matters worse. We need to be pragmatic and careful. We need to rearm. I expect France, Germany and Sweden will. Poland already is.

Currently, we are very weak. At the moment the US is not just choosing to neglect our interests, but doing things that are antagonistic. We have to walk a fine line until we shore things up.

If we take action and improve our situation, then we can invite the Americans to leave. If they feel more like an occupying army rather than a protective ally.

I think we shouldn't just leap to write off the USA as an ally, as a knee-jerk reaction to the current diplomatic situation.

consider that the US will still continue to staff and fund 13 military bases in our country, we are strategically important to US and will remain so.

also consider that Trump is one president who takes a position but at some stage he will not be president. Similarly Putin is one person, who is here at this point in history and his actions at some stage will cease. All things will pass.

Leaping to the conclusion that US is "no longer an ally" is short termist in the grand scheme. We definitely need to step up decisively and fast, in bolstering European security (that has been known for a very long time) - successive governments have been milking the peace dividend for far longer than was wise to do and we know we need to take affirmative action so in that regard Trump has done us a favour. But let's not write off US.

The US UK "special relationship" that leaders would have us believe, is a bit of a myth, it has been symbiotic and often cordial when needed, but there has also been a power imbalance. This is international relations for you. It's nuanced.

Thatcher and Reagan, Blair and Bush, they had personal rapport, but they are history now too.

The man has always made a nice speech. I heard one a few years ago where he set out the values of secularism and the Republic which was brilliant. But meaningless because he never, ever follows through,

So ra ra all you like about this speech. It’s inspiring if you like a good rousing oration, but it is hollow and meaningless. The man has no conviction and will never follow through.