Don’t buy American goods

I can’t afford a Tesla <sighs>. No trade war is going to change that.

But back to the point of the thread. No im not going to boycott US goods. I know what they say about Russia. I have long term memory so can actually recall what they said about Ukraine. I also know that our leaders are mainly snivelling cowards, and what is currently going on is way above our pay grade as a country. I also know that our country is n sufficiently dire straits that we can’t afford to get deeply involved.

I also know that we’ve had three years in which we could have armed Ukraine properly- and didn’t. Ergo, we wanted them to only be able to fight just enough not to lose, but definitely not enough to win. So I doubt our political masters are, at the end of the day, going to go against the US.

So against that background, I’m going to just carry on as usual.

Let's get back to the thread, about not buying American products and not let the bots derail the thread.

Canada and the US have a mutual firefighting agreement. The Canadians get paid for their help, just like we do when we help them.

Katrina--the help was nice, because it made us feel that maybe the world doesn't completely hate us, but Katrina was fumbled, badly, by the New Orleans city government and the Louisiana state government. I have close family in New Orleans who lived through that crazy mess. But we do appreciate the help when it's offered.

However, I don't see where fires in Los Angeles or hurricanes in Louisiana obligate us in any way to send troops to Ukraine.

I do want peace but not a the price of rewarding Putin. I am worried that Trump has some business interests with respect to Russia because it makes no sense lifting sanctions and removing support for Europe and the Ukraine.

It's a very tricky position because our economy and military are woven tightly to America and now we face a neutral America at best and at worst a possible serious enemy.

What the hell do we do? America is a now refusing to share intelligence with the United Kingdom because they don't want it passing to the Ukraine.

I honestly think now is the time to consider an military position against Russia but consider this how else can we defend the Ukraine without providing air support, troops and navy.

Does it?

The memoranda, signed in Patria Hall at the Budapest Convention Center with U.S. Ambassador Donald M. Blinken amongst others in attendance,[3] prohibited Russia, the United States, and the United Kingdom from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.[4][5]
Russia breached the Budapest memorandum in 2014 with its annexation of Ukraine's Crimea.[6][7] As a response, the US, UK and France provided Ukraine with financial and military assistance,

So no, it’s not as simple as “respect ukraine’s
territory”. It prevents the us from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine. So if the US starts supporting Russia, they breach the convention

Yes, you've committed boots on the ground. Two nuclear powers planning to go toe to toe with a third nuclear power on European soil. This doesn't strike you as unwise in any way? This is NOT WW2. There are nukes involved these days. Do you really think Putin wouldn't use them if he gets backed into a corner? If so, you trust him more than I do.

As for Russia doing poorly. True, to an extent. But Putin has cannon fodder from North Korea to throw at the fight and he's got a much better defense industry than Ukraine that can keep him supplied. He owns his own C3I, too. He is hurting, but he can sustain low level trench warfare indefinitely the way things are right now.

See also hurricane Katrina.

and many, especially Canada, pitched in with the recent LA fires.

I've cancelled all my subscriptions with the exception of Microsoft

Have you read the Budapest Memorandum? I have. It obligates the US, UK and Russia to respect Ukraine's territory, and to notify the UN if Ukraine gets nuked. That's it. That's the whole obligation. Nothing else.

Now explain to me how the US isn't living up to its responsibility. We didn't breach Ukraine's territory and they haven't been nuked. If they are we'll be sure to notify the UN.

I believe only France and the U.K. have committed to boots on the ground so we have committed to that. The US hasn’t. And Russia is doing extremely poorly and isn’t exactly winning the war either.

We don't want allies. We don't need allies. Allies are a European mindset because you are small countries. Small countries need to band together against large threats to survive. NATO was enacted to tie the US to Europe militarily, but we no longer want that.

Before you start talking about 911, yes, we Americans appreciate what you did. You answered the Article 5 call. But that call was made for American internal political reasons--to provide cover to Bush and Cheney who were itching for war in Iraq and Afghanistan and needed to be able to say, "it's not just us, the Europeans are in, too" to sell the war to a skeptical American public. Those British and other European young men didn't need to die or suffer terrible injuries and I'm very sorry they did.

We spend $1T on defense each year and have over 5000 nuclear weapons. We are completing our iron dome missile defense system to protect the whole of the US from conventional missile threats. Other countries may annoy us, but they don't threaten our homeland.

Terrorism is a threat, but it be a problem regardless of what happens in Ukraine and since 911 we have built a robust anti-terrorism network.

It’s very hard not to point out such blatant stupidity.

Don't believe numbers coming from either Ukraine and Russia, since both sides have reason to downplay them. US intelligence says there have been around 1.5 million casualties on both sides to date. Casualties include the dead and those physically wounded to the point of not being able to continue fighting. The problem for Ukraine is that about 1/2 of its men are either war casualties or have fled the country. That's why they want American boots on the ground.

If y'all feel that strongly about Ukraine, you and the rest of Europe will need to send your own troops, because Ukraine is running out.

Yeah, we're real stupid. Our GDP per capita is $83,000. UK GDP per capita is $49,000. Yup, we're just a bunch of gun totin' idiots...that are much wealthier than you.

The stuff that people are allowed to say on here about Americans would not be tolerated if it referred to any other country in the world. And you wonder why we don't want to pay for your security anymore.

USA withdrew intelligence sharing with Ukraine with no notice! No decent country will do this.

Now, USA has no allies in Europe, both their neighbouring countries are treated like enemies,
Middle East loves them after their disastrous foreign policy in the region, as well as Australia and New Zealand!

I would say US has made itself even more a bigger target to terrorist attacks, well refusal of intelligence sharing works both ways!

USA is the only country that has triggered article 5 so far, no other NATO country has done this.
USA signed Budapest memorandum and is going back!
Remember 9/11 - who came to US rescue and stood by their side ?

How is Trump selling out America? European security has been more than a trillion dollar drain on our treasury over the years. Trump is cutting that back with a goal toward ending it completely, and that policy is very popular. In the most recent poll after his address to Congress this past Tuesday, 73% of Americans said they support him on Ukraine.

You're all just upset that you will have to pay for your own security from now on, just like we pay for ours. I'm sorry about the Ukrainian people, but the only way they're winning that war is for the US to go toe to toe with Russia on European soil. You should be thanking us for not being willing to take that risk with your and your children's lives, because nuclear fallout from Ukraine would blow west.

Our purchasing power as individuals may be small, but as a collective force it is a powerful leverage. It's not easy to navigate products these days with "made in" and "product of" etc., but every little change we make can collectively send a message and help local businesses as well.

Is it?

most drugs the nhs buys will not be at US prices. I doubt the NHS buys many drugs from Us manufacturers. It would be unaffordable.

Europe has a vast amount of pharma companies, both research and manufacturing.

boots developed ibuprofen remember. They aren’t just a high street store. Ireland is the 5th largest drug manufacture in the world. The us may be the largest single share country but the rest of the world combined is bigger. Plenty of other, cheaper options.

Here's a good subreddit showing alternatives:

www.reddit.com/r/BoycottUnitedStates/comments/1j19bwz/alternatives_from_around_the_world/

If there's an alternative to the brands I use I would switch.
Probably can't stop using stuff like WhatsApp but I would think twice now about buying goods from America.
Ethical consumerism is difficult though as markets and supply chains are complicated, but where and how you spend your money is something everyone can choose how they do at least some of the time.

Also it's untrue that is why Democrats lost. There was a campaign of disinformation, pro-fascist conspiracy theories, bot propaganda and billionaire backing for Trump.

And Trump said Elon "knew all about those voting computers".

Your comment is in effect confirming that Trump voters are not very intelligent. You are pointing out that they voted against their own interests because the other side is sneering at them. Doesn't say much for their critical thinking skills does it?

Because of the Budapest Memorandum. Ukraine was pressured to give up all their nuclear weapons which it was keeping mainly because of Russian threats. They agreed to do so because UK France and the US of A promised to protect them if Russian invaded.

Trump has decided that the US benefits financially more from allowing Russia to take what they want of Ukraine. In fact it doesn't benefit the US at all to protect any European countries against Russia so why bother?

talking about cognitive impairment, Trump seems pretty cognitively impaired right now and some experts are suggesting he has frontotemporal dementia due to issues with his gait, speech and so on.

And talking of cognitive deficits, apparently he boasts that he has never read a book FFS.

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/americas-first-post-text-president/549794/