The Brits are SO smart.

*MrsBennetsPoorNerves

This is a joint effort between Starmer and Macron. They are absolutely working in tandem.

This - they completely understand the situation*

I really hope that Europe, Canada etc ARE onside and working with us on this and not pissed off at perceived UK one-upmanship

Don't forget Trump has Scottish ancestry................

@Wildflowers99 has a point about the careful public handling of any Trump visit. We need to pull together on this one for the greater good TBH. There's a political game afoot

Oh please. Labelling me a Trump apologist (me, a Lib Dem voting Europhile) because I point out some uncomfortable truths is a joke.

Scotland has partaken in virtually all aspects of unpalatable British history, and profited nicely from the Union and continues to do so.

They are just very good at distancing themselves when it’s brought up.

Wow - if you really think Scotland piggy backs off England you have a really short memory. Its resources have been plundered for centuries to your benefit. This comment alone provides ample context as to why you would be a Trump apologist.

As to the referendum, it was older voters that swung the vote towards remaining in the union. It may take a decade or two, but Scottish independence will be on the cards again and I suspect it will be a different outcome.

As to demonstrating, it's incredibly important to advocate for those that don't have a voice. It's what makes us human.

No one expects the country to cheer for him but just stay at home, no need for protest. We need to play all this carefully

Yes it was the adult placating the toddler about to have a tantrum on the floor. And the repetitive use of enthusiastic words to reinforce the lesson - “You have a very special treat here but you must behave. No more tantrums please. Let’s see you trying a bit harder to be a grown up boy.”

Fgs please don't 😤

I'm not a fan of starmer, I think he's a wet lettuce BUT I do think he did well yesterday. Yes he licked his arse but he's got too really at this point.

Yep, like I said, I imagine that it was painful for Starmer to go through that charade, and he probably needed a long shower to cleanse himself of the ick afterwards.
But it was the only option open to him, and he passed the test.

"recipients"
There isn't a big bag of money that America hands to other Nato members. There also isn't a big house share in which France etc doss about and won't pay their share of the leccy bills.
Yes, America spends much more on defence. A lot of that is not about NATO though - America wants to send aircraft carriers to sit meaningfully in the waters near the middle east while Israel bombs Gaza in a "just you try anything" manner. America wanted to be the ones in charge of world shipping - that's why they were the ones taking on the Houthis. America spent money on wars in Vietnam, South America, Iraq. All of that is American defence spending. And America's choice.

As far as Nato goes. Yes other countries benefit from the "mutual defense pact" that America is a major part of by virtue of its size and military spending. But the only time Article 5 was ever triggered was when America was attacked. And lots of NATO soldiers dies, and lots of NATO countries spent lots of money. So it is not one sided. America also benefits from having bases, nuclear weapons in other countries. Without meaningful security guarantees that puts those countries at more risk, not less (A country bombing America would also bomb American bases in Italy whether Italy had done anything or not).

Agreed
And I am dreading the meeting with Z today, i really hope they get something out of it

I understood why they did it but it just feels so cheap and demeaning. Thank goodness QEII isn’t around to have to deal with him visiting again.

The letter itself is very good. It spells out the major risks of slashing aid.

To us, our reputation and to others

I feel like Scotland’s main concern is its cool, lefty reputation, which it can afford to prioritise only because England does the necessary bad-optics type stuff.

But they voted to remain in the UK and now must act like a member of the UK. England has done enough heavy lifting, now they can step up.

I’d missed news of Dodds’s resignation.

This is exactly the sort of discontent within Labour that I had in mind when I mentioned Labour MPs’ reactions to Starmer cosying up to Trump. I doubt Dodds’s auto-defenestration will matter very much for now. But it’s an interesting signal.

Starmer may end up doing something good for the country at grave cost to him and his party’s unity. That’s not a bad or unprincipled thing.

I don’t really care what Scotland thinks. Scotland piggy backs off England, so rather than acting like a child who insists they don’t like the meal while eating it, they should either muck in for the national interests or stop accepting our cash

I happen to agree with you, @Wildflowers99, but you'll get incoming on that!!

The US is the only NATO country to be reducing their spend over 10 years instead of increasing it, and it pays far less percentage-wise than several other countries now

You're absolutely right, @tallhotpinkflamingo, though it's worth remembering that their much larger economy is the basic reason the US is paying so much

Really, though, it's the perception that they're "paying for everyone else's defence" that sickens so many Americans, and which Trump's playing to - especially when a lot of the recipients are very free with their anti-US insults

@LadyBracknellsHandbagg you still haven't answered on Lammy's quote, why not?

It's hard to converse with you as you keep avoiding that basic piece of information.

We can decide to not go forward as he said.

Can you consider why he said that?

I can’t continue to converse with you if you’re not going to inform yourself about this issue.

It is not an option for us to ‘keep the islands’, they aren’t ours, we forcibly colonised them. We also negotiated a secret deal with the US in 1968 agreeing to lease it one of the largest atolls, Diego Garcia, which is where the military base is, and the US are holding us to that agreement. We are reaping what we have previously sown, so you need to accept that.

Down to practicalities, we need the backing of the USA.
We are a Monarchy, so let him give a letter.

Because he won’t do tariffs if we appease him. He’s already rowed back and said we can make a deal without them, probably because we’ve done the necessary ego stroking and he doesn’t want to start his new starry friendship with the Royals under a cloud.

I don’t really care what Scotland thinks. Scotland piggy backs off England, so rather than acting like a child who insists they don’t like the meal while eating it, they should either muck in for the national interests or stop accepting our cash. What makes you think Scottish people are to be tiptoed around and appeased while the English have to do the dirty work?

Your ‘demonstrating’ would do nothing other than make you feel satisfied with yourself. It would do nothing for the causes you speak of above, and seeing as Gaza doesn’t have its own voice to Trump, any best interests they have will not be furthered by taking him on.

@Panofrashers - you are right that he is already threatening tariffs.

A trade deal would potentially lock better rates between the US and the UK.

Trump has domestic powers to adjust tariffs on countries he does not like. We should aim to be out of that.

That said he is so capricious that you wonder if he would actually honour the terms of his FTAs in the long term. But such deals are frequently renegotiated anyway

Yup and that's why I'm glad it was him and not BoJo, who is also a loose cannon and could easily have put his foot in it

With "scary leaders of countries who aren't actual allies", Starmer probably wouldn't have anything like as much to lose.

The stakes were incredibly high at yesterday's meeting, and while the US has historically been an ally, Trump has already demonstrated that we can no longer rely on this. After all, it was only this week when the US decided to vote alongside some of those "countries that aren't actual allies" at the UN - Russia, North Korea, Iran...

Frankly, it would be worrying if Starmer hadn't felt a bit nervous in that situation because that would suggest a concerning lack of understanding of the dangerous geopolitical reality in which we now find ourselves.