Peter Hyman: how you can beat populism and the seven deadly sins of the Left

Populism is dangerous and destructive, as we found out under the last government and the US is discovering now.

Populism is to Popular, as Sexism is to Sexy.

I find the way people sneer at populism interesting. A popular belief is one that is shared by most people. If like me you believe in the innate good sense of people their ability to see the lies spouted by government and the vital need to maintain free speech there is no need to be frightened of populism.
Personally I think many beliefs labelled as populism have validity. They need to be explored through open debate and if extremists on either side of the political divide can be a little less bigoted and engage in the debate we might all benefit.

@dayoffvibes I’m 100% with you on the leaders, kingmakers and hanger-ons, which seems to trickle down effectively.

I am by no means an expert, but my observations, for what they’re worth, of the people I know in my home community is that people feel left behind. When I return to visit now, the losses in industry, retail, maintenance, etc. are obvious and depressing. These towns still very much feel the legacy of Thatcher and Tory austerity. However, throughout this they’ve had continuous Labour councils and MPs, and there is resentment and frustrations aimed at them; a feeling that they’re also to blame, part of the system that has led to decline, and that Labour politicians have taken them and their vote for granted for too long. It’s like a pp mentioned - there is so much anger, frustration, disillusionment with the two main parties and the system as a whole, that Reform’s sales pitch of offering something new and different (as hollow and divisive as that is), can be seen to be worth a shot, if you have nothing to lose.

The other part of this is that many lifelong Labour voters, don’t feel the same connection to the party. I remember the night of the 2019 election when the Tories were winning seats in the red wall, and Alan Johnson was aiming a lot of frustration directly at Jon Lansman of Momentum, who was in the studio with him - essentially saying that the Corbyn/student politics approach was disastrous for connecting with the working class. Whether he was accurate or not with this is a separate debate, but from my experience, people do feel that Labour has become more the party of the middle classes, graduates, living in expensive areas of cities, etc. who are out of touch with what is happening in their communities and dismissive of the challenges they face. I think it’s very interesting if you move between these two groups, to notice this. Reform have somehow managed to convince people that they are now the party to represent them; their leaders are clearly not , but if I look at the Reform MPs they put forward in my hometown last election, they are local men (of course they’re men) who share a similar background in terms of level education, work type, etc. to many voters and voters can identify/relate more to these people.

It also links to what another pp said about connecting to hearts rather than minds - I think we can often be so focused on policy, values, etc. (and rightly so), that we can overlook how important that connection is. And while we can rightfully rage about the incompetence and corruption of Farage and Johnson, they somehow seem to be able connect with people, or so the evidence tells us. And now more than ever, with X and other social media, GB News where several Reform MPs are regular contributors, they have a constant drip-feed of these ‘personalities’ (I’d choose other nouns) and their views.

I'm afraid so. IMO we actually need a decent socialist party not more neoliberals. Unfortunately Starmer doesn't like the left, and it's now slim pickings.

@NonComm

Immigration from EE increased under Blair as he underestimated how many would take advantage of free movement to the UK. However, it went through the roof under the Tories.

Annual net migration to the UK in 2010 was 252,000 and in 2023 was 782,000.

I don't understand your point about the effect on communities; it's surely worse now. The problem is Britain likes cheap labour and after Brexit, it came from outside the EU.

Those with capacity and capable of speaking English can listen to both sides of a debate. In places like Wales, the benefits of being in the EU were pretty evident.

People complain about a nanny state then complain when they're asked to work things out for themselves. You're making excuses for laziness.

I'm not getting derailed into talking about the gender debate. My point was you can't blame the party that was not in power for the mess we're now in.

It may not last but the invention of DOGE was absolute genius. Every day they can talk about the ordinary American taxpayers funding Transgender operas, DEI projects in Serbia and Ireland, etc etc. and lay the blame on the Democrats. Any public servant who objects is told they must be hiding their own 'grift'. If you're on Twitter follow the Doge account and be very afraid because that's exactly what Reform and the Tories will be focusing on in the run up to the next election and beyond. It may not be fair but it is contributing to Trump's excellent polling right now. I've been following the Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife employment tribunal and the NHS Fife Diversity lead is a 28 year old who advises people on how to use pronouns and is paid around £40,000 a year. Her advice is going to cost NHS Fife hundreds of thousands of pounds. Hopefully Labour are paying attention because I don't think they're stupid. Wes Streeting seems to get it.

^ Strange view. Immigration rose exponentially under the Tories, especially Johnson.The gender woo was embedded under the Tories over the past 14 years. Their Equalities Minister seemed very passionate about trans ideology during her tenure and May wanted to bring in Gender ID.^

Well exactly it's been a uni party, both with the same policies.
We know our kids are not doing very well, that they are unable to buy houses or get good jobs, wages are falling relatively and services are breaking down.
It might be because it has devolved into some kind of kleptocracy, it is not functioning for our benifit anymore.

@username299
Yes - of course immigration increased under the tories but I'm referring in particular to the sudden rise in immigration from the EU in the 90's whilst Labour were in government and the effect on communities.

The benefits of the EU were freely available to all and debates on both sides raged before the referendum.

My point is that many people didn't/don't have time/not interested in politics and were/are vulnerable to sound bites.
Also the left have been less than clear in the gender debate.

@NonComm Strange view. Immigration rose exponentially under the Tories, especially Johnson.The gender woo was embedded under the Tories over the past 14 years. Their Equalities Minister seemed very passionate about trans ideology during her tenure and May wanted to bring in Gender ID.

The benefits of the EU were freely available to all and debates on both sides raged before the referendum.

Why do the right refuse to take responsibility for anything?

Really interesting thread. I have concluded that the left simply don't listen to concerns. For example:
The influx of EU citizens changed many communities considerably, wages were reduced and queries about this were dismissed and it was mishandled. As a PP said, the benefits of EU membership were not highlighted enough.
Consequently, the seeds of Brexit were sown.
The left also dismissed concerns about the gender debate.
Many people don't have time for politics but are vulnerable to catchy phrases on both printed and social media.
It's all a mess.

@newrubylane

But my take is this - the Liberal view is trying to win minds over hearts. It is failing because the populists aren't playing by the same rules. They tell people to 'do their own research' which effectively means 'believe what you want to believe'. The Liberals can't win an information war with their current tactic of 'facts'.

Thanks for that, very interesting.

You're spot on and this is exactly what I observed during the US election. The left simply can't compete against these tactics.

Trump for example, simply made stuff up and banged on about fake news. He made promises that he couldn't possibly keep and promised to rip up the system - with the caveat that what he did would benefit people.

Farage not only says things he wants people to hear, he is lazy and lies, yet people believe he's going to save us. There's a fair amount of cognitive dissonance involved.

I am currently reading Nexus by Yuval Noah Harari. He posits two alternative views of information: the 'naive' (liberal) take which is that the proliferation of information inevitably means the truth wins through and the 'good' will prevail. Anything that goes against this idea is 'misinformation' or 'disinformation', which will eventually be defeated by facts. It equates information with facts, as it were. And the 'populist' view which views information as power, and is more interested in the subjective than the truth - disliking experts, for instance. But Harari argues that actually information isn't really either of these. That information is merely connections between people. It's not intrinsically true or false, it's more about the connections we are making.

I've yet to read the next bit to understand the outcome of this line of thinking ...

But my take is this - the Liberal view is trying to win minds over hearts. It is failing because the populists aren't playing by the same rules. They tell people to 'do their own research' which effectively means 'believe what you want to believe'. The Liberals can't win an information war with their current tactic of 'facts'.

@Sherbs12 yes I agree with your point. Clearly I don't actually wish to always refer to an us and them narrative. However given that we keep having one shoved down our throats I'm suggesting we change the dividing line between us and them. I think the lefties versus Tories / Leaver us and them idea is invented by the Daily Mail /Telegraph anyway.

I do think there's an us and them in the world, generally made up of decent folk and assholes. The populist leaders Trump, Farage etc are undoubtedly assholes, along with their kingmakers and hangers on (Musk, Andrew Tate etc).

Those red wall town Reform voters you mentioned.. There can only be three options for them can't there?

1. They were exploited by the populist leaders and voted in good faith because they were frustrated by the two leading parties.
2. They knew what they were voting for and are therefore assholes.

1. Is patronising as it implies they can't read up or understand what's going on for themselves.

1. Characterises them as assholes.

3.???

Re 1930's Germany how do we feel about all those Germans who voted for the Nazi's now? Do we feel they were exploited, or should have had their eyes open?

Genuine questions.

@dayoffvibes I agree with almost everything that you say, but I think we have to be very careful about ‘us’ claiming to have the moral high ground or better values, and I think that can actually sometimes be part of the issue.

Firstly, because there will be so much range within and variables between different issues/people, that I don’t think and us vs them mindset is always an helpful approach to take. I share a a very similar background to you, and Reform are increasingly popular in my red wall hometown; I hate that this is happening, but I recognise the factors that have led to this - it would be inaccurate and unfair to say that all of the people who support Reform are without values. It’s much more nuanced than that, although I make no such defence for self-serving leaders and grifters like Farage and co, I’m in full agreement with you there. I think it was Jonathan Reynolds just after the last election who made the point that when campaigning they’d spoken to many good people who supported Reform, but that wasn’t to say Reform are good people. I think for many (not all!), a vote for Reform is almost a protest vote against a political system that they feel has failed them. Obviously, this is problematic and flawed for many reasons.

Secondly, it’s the perceived condescension and patronising subtext that goes with it: we know/are better than you, so let us tell you what should happen. And it is this perception, whether it is valid or not, that populists exploit. Think back to Gove and his comment on people having had enough of experts and all of the hate on X directed at ‘smug lefties/liberals’, etc.

I, of course, agree with your opinions on Trump and Vance, completely; the added challenge there, with regards to the US administration in terms of values and morals, is their association with and use of Christianity as part of their politics, which blurs everything even more. That is perhaps a whole other thread!

I struggle with this to be honest. I'm a Labour voter, born working class (1st in family to go to uni etc) and now postgraduate quals, metropolitan dweller, liberal. I've also worked with Peter Hyman a bit and I like him. However I feel uncomfortable about this theory. Not in the sense that it makes me uncomfortable as I feel responsible, but because the implication of the article / argument is that liberals are "to blame" and therefore right wingers are free of responsibility. I don't think that's the case

I also add that right now I don't feel the old dividing lines of lefties vs Tories, Remainers vs Leavers are relevant anymore. I think it's us against them. Us: values led moral majority who love their country, want the best for their family absolutely care about peace, climate change and security (may vote Labour or Tory) vs Them: the populists / and the outright facists.

Take the JD Vance speech at Munich Friday. I'm furious at it, because he took tiny events of truths and distorted it and amplified this distorted truth for his home audience.

I now believe, (in light of today's news that Trump is going to negotiate with Putin and exclude Ukraine and Europe, one link below) that the current US administration is out to destroy Europe. Zelensky told reporters that Trump is demanding a 50% stake in Ukraine's rare minerals and gas, and on all profits moving forward "as repayment" for security previously given (so not even with the guarantee of future support). This is outrageous colonialism. I do not believe Trump has values. The populist position is value-less and only by self-serving.

Europe and the US fought together to defeat facism and yet all that is being thrown away to serve America's profit. Putin is being welcomed in from the cold and the US, Musk, Trump, Vance, and the rest of the populists do everything they can to break Europe apart, kill our democracy and weaken Europe for their own benefit. Alliances and peace mean nothing to them.

So, do I think the left is to blame for this outcome? Only in the sense that politically we weren't quick enough to see what their plan was and stop them. Morally "we" (the left, centrists, moderates) have values, and the populates do not.

Honestly what do we do now? We are at risk from Russia and America is backing them. At war with US/Russia we would be annihilated. They are trying to come for us and make us capitulate and essentially take Europe as part of the United States of Russia and America.

We the left, centrist, moderate right need to unite now.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/16/ukraine-war-briefing-us-and-russian-officials-to-meet-in-saudi-arabia-without-ukrainians-reports?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Labour as is can't heed any warning. There were some absolutely stunning threads on here years ago in which some incredible posters gave amazing critique and insights on what was going wrong. I remember at the time posters clamouring to please show these thread if someone has membership or ties to the party.

Free critical insight on a micro level and a macro level.

They didn't change they can't.
It's so arrogant and patronising and all about bashing people and hating the nasty uk, hand in glove with the onions.

@Tryingtokeepgoing

Re positive remain campaigning shouldn't they have had the upper hand?
Being able to sell and just point to the glowing benefits of being part of the eu?

They couldn't because it stinks, clumsy, huge sink hole of burocratic gravy trains and corruption.
They couldn't sell it.

Oh and the irony of Jeremy corybn in charge of the left at the time who wanted us out as well!

Just as a follow on from this thread, there is an article today from The New Statesman, that might be of interest, ‘Labour must heed the warnings from the German election.’

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour/2025/02/labour-must-heed-warnings-from-german-election

Anyone can be paid by anyone. This is the internet, you have no idea who anyone is. So to base your vote on what someone said online is unwise and makes you easily manipulated.

If you vote a certain way, own it. Stop blaming others.

TooBigForMyBoots · 28/01/2025 17:21
His premise has one massive flaw. Even if every lefty, centrist and expert in their field chooses to Be Kind, there's nothing to stop trolls. Anyone can be anyone on the internet. Do you think populist campaigns are above paying people to call others stupid, evil etc

There are plenty of posters on here who call Tory voters and Brexiteers stupid, racist, evil and so on. Are they paid by left wing campaigns?

A really interesting article and a really insightful responses.

We also need to recognise that there are lots of the current left-leaning graduate metropolitan class referred to who come from working class backgrounds in old Labour and/or red wall areas, with ties and insight into both groups - they’re not as separate as we’re often told. For many of those people, there has been concern for a long time about some of the issues discussed in the article. The votes for Brexit, the Johnson voters in the red wall, the rise of the popularity of Reform in these communities are all linked; often, it’s within communities who now feel detached from, or even abandoned by, Labour and frustrated by long-standing Labour MPs/councils (obviously, under a Tory government and austerity). Until Labour re-connect with those communities again in real terms and make sure they’re heard and part of their narrative, then opportunists like Farage will continue to fill that void.

The left doesn't offer enough of an alternative to the status quo.

The press and social media are used very effectively by the right wing.

There's a big push at the moment to demonise the left. I even had a 'debate' the other day about the Nazis not being left wing. We're hearing about left fascists and the fact that far right doesn't mean anything anymore.

Far right ideology is becoming mainstream. Today we had a thread about the Great Replacement theory. I've seen posts on remigration and we have thread after thread demonising Muslims and asylum seekers.

Experts are rubbished. Misinformation is rife. Alternative views are rubbished as fake news. I've noticed that anything 'woke' such as reports and statistics on racism or LGBTQ issues have been deleted.

We're in an information war.

His premise has one massive flaw. Even if every lefty, centrist and expert in their field chooses to Be Kind, there's nothing to stop trolls. Anyone can be anyone on the internet. Do you think populist campaigns are above paying people to call others stupid, evil etc?

Those who vote against their interests because a random called them a name need to take responsibility for their own actions instead of continuing to be easily manipulated and blaming others.

The supposed logic of classical economic determinism presumed around the turn of the last century that the more powerless and poor the majority of the population were in their work and living conditions and standards the more likely they were to form a collective rebellion to the system that exploited them and meant that the poor got poorer whilst the rich got richer because it was written into the ordinary way of doing business.

Somewhat counter-intuitively it turned out that the oppressed masses fought amongst themselves like rats in a cage demonising other poor and oppressed whilst popular support for the status quo increased, particularly right wing ideology that provided easy targets to blame.

The rise of fascism led to a radical rethinking - Gramsci's theory of hegemony sums it up:

Classical Marxism had predicted that socialist revolution was inevitable in capitalist societies. By the early 20th century, no such revolution had occurred in the most advanced nations, and those revolutions of 1917–1923, such as in Germany or the Biennio Rosso in Italy, had failed. As capitalism seemed more entrenched than ever, Gramsci suggested that it maintained control not just through violence and political and economic coercion but also through ideology. The bourgeoisie developed a hegemonic culture, which propagated its own values and norms so that they became the common sense values of all. People in the working class and other classes identified their own good with the good of the bourgeoisie and helped to maintain the status quorather than revolting.

After the last outing and defeat of fascism there was a burgeoning of increased rights of the common people that were not just gifted by the state or employers but were hard fought for by people who belonged to what could be termed counter hegemonic groups whether organised trade unions representing worker's rights or more informal groups. This effectively blocked the rise of the right by providing a means to advance and achieve and make life better for you and your offspring whilst providing a counter ideology that wasn't based on demonising other marginalised groups. On the contrary there was mutual support - eg in the 80s striking miners and gay right activists that broke down prejudices.

The last five decades have not been good for the common people. Worker's rights have been eroded and we now have zero hour contracts and low wages topped up by benefits. State services from GPs and hospitals, not to mention Dentists, mental health provision, education, housing, emergency services and council services are on their knees and failing.

Inequality is increasing at an alarming rate. The poor are getting poorer whilst the rich are getting richer and this is so normalised that the press and the Tory party are fundamentally opposed to increasing employer tax and the upcoming worker's rights bill which seeks to give basic protection to the most vulnerable.

If you tink that the poor and needy are selfish and greedy whilst the rich deserve their often unearned wealth you support the status quo.

In this context the rise of the right should be no great surprise and it is pure hubris of the left liberals to assume it only their fault because they didn't win the battle of ideas. They gave up the counter-hegemonic loci that enable and ground these ideas in real life so the common person has nothing to believe but the bogeymen presented as the 'problem' by the status quo.

Of course this context throws up so-called leaders who promise to deal with those demonised and make life better for the non-demonised by getting rid of them one way or another.

So you may be young or naive, you may really believe that asylum seekers, immigrants, unemployed, disabled or any other group are the real problem and if only we could get rid of them rents and mortgages would be cheap and property would be affordable, the health service would work, wages would enable you to live without benefit back up, grocery's would be cheaper etc.

We do need an honest discussion but we won't have one even where life and death is at stake because our elected leaders all play by the rules of the game. We need a different game in which the majority are not predestined to be losers. And the predestined winners don't play the losers to increase their power and wealth.