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Original poster

A Christian sermon is now more controversial than a nazi salute! WTF!

163 replies

StandFirm · 22/01/2025 11:51

Republicans' reactions to Rev Mariann Budde include calls for her to be booted out of the US due to her sermon reminding the congregation (which included Pres. Trump) that the Christian message features some very basic principles such as treating others with humanity and respect. Georgia congressman Mike Collins Budde, a US citizen, “should be added to the deportation list” because of it. So, is the US now a place where people will condemn the basic tenets of Christianity but celebrate a nazi-saluting notorious proponent of trans-humanism (why doesn't Trump call out this frankly creepy and downright wicked pursuit and picks on vulnerable people instead?)? What of freedom of expression? A one-way street? Those who branded the Reverend 'leftist' and closed their ears to her message should not be calling themselves Christians.
One of my good friend lives in Georgia. She told me that one of her local church ministers got told off by his congregation for talking about the ten commandments because 'too leftist'. I shit you not. I don't normally pray - at least not publicly- but really, God help us all!

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FrippEnos · 26/01/2025 18:43

StandFirm · 26/01/2025 07:50

@FrippEnos I know how valuable sports scholarships are, and I'm not saying that self-ID and the trans inclusion debate is a non-issue -I've acknowledged it's controversial- but if you look at the religious extremists supporting Trump and all the 'manosphere' little toxic bullies that have stoked the culture wars, you'd have to live under a rock to not understand that it's ALL the rights of ALL women that they're looking to scrap. Peter Thiel himself (not a religious nut but certainly a libertarian and former close associate of Musk) stated in a published essay that the extension of the voting franchise to women was a historic mistake. It was maybe 10-15 years ago that he said that. Honestly, the threat to all women is immense so yes, we have to be pragmatic and park some disagreements for now and focus on salvaging what we can salvage before it's too late.

Yet Biden was selling women's rights down the river in the open. Lets not pretend that he is some sort of saviour.
I wouldn't be able to vote for either of the two parties in the US at the moment as neither of them are supporting women's rights.
And I am not going to shelve that because someone on the internet tells me that there are more important things to be fighting for as I am able to fight for and support multiple causes at once.

Mamebea · 26/01/2025 18:23

peachgreen · 22/01/2025 12:35

I think Elon Musk is a drug-addled narcissist who is a bigot in any number of ways, and the biggest risk to global stability this side of Putin, but he wasn't deliberately doing a Nazi salute, and all the energy we're wasting talking about it is simply playing into his/Trump's hands.

This ^ although I still think he knew what he was doing. I’m wondering if there were other ways he could have sent his heart out ❤️it’s all theatre l, and they want to cause confusion. Trump/musk are a dangerous combo, but I can’t see two egos that big side by side for long.

MissTrip82 · 26/01/2025 08:02

I find it fascinating that Trumo supporters are so quick to decry ‘cancel culture’ when they’re its greatest proponents. Sacking people, threatening to deport people, anyone who disagrees is a target.

It’s incredible that they belive they’re supporters of free speech.

Original poster
StandFirm · 26/01/2025 07:56

As an aside, I don't get the transphobia. Statistically it's a very small group and if one acknowledges that body dysmorphia is a real condition (which it is), it's utterly cruel to force people to pretend to be something they're not their entire lives. 60 years ago people were terrified of gays. Would anyone on here say we shouldn't have made homosexuality legal?
We just need to find a sensible consensus around trans issues - can't see one sadly for now as society is so polarised but there's no reason we couldn't actually find one.

OP posts:
Original poster
StandFirm · 26/01/2025 07:50

@FrippEnos I know how valuable sports scholarships are, and I'm not saying that self-ID and the trans inclusion debate is a non-issue -I've acknowledged it's controversial- but if you look at the religious extremists supporting Trump and all the 'manosphere' little toxic bullies that have stoked the culture wars, you'd have to live under a rock to not understand that it's ALL the rights of ALL women that they're looking to scrap. Peter Thiel himself (not a religious nut but certainly a libertarian and former close associate of Musk) stated in a published essay that the extension of the voting franchise to women was a historic mistake. It was maybe 10-15 years ago that he said that. Honestly, the threat to all women is immense so yes, we have to be pragmatic and park some disagreements for now and focus on salvaging what we can salvage before it's too late.

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dubsie · 25/01/2025 22:10

It was a nazi salute, it's so obvious and deliberate. I don't think he's a Nazi though I just think he did it to be controversial and make a point that you can say and do what you want now.

ArabellaScott · 25/01/2025 08:38

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 25/01/2025 08:11

Exactly!!

And it's not the women fighting against trans ideology that are sleep walking into Gilead.

We have been warning politicians on the left for a long time that their blind obsession with promoting trans rights over female rights is turning voters away from them. This issue has taken down two first ministers in Scotland so far.

The polling shows the Dems supporting males in female prisons and sports was among the top issues for voters swinging towards Trump.

YOU are the ones sleepwalking towards Gilead, towards the rise of Reform in the UK. Politicians really need to listen to what the mood of the majority of the public is on trans issues before we end up with Farage as PM.

Show quote history

We warned about Trump.

We can try warning about Farage.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 25/01/2025 08:11

FrippEnos · 24/01/2025 13:57

StandFirm

*it seems some people care so passionately about women's sports that they're willing to throw away all the social progress made in the last 50 years"

But you are happy to throw away years of hard forth for women's rights?

"in the same of something that I bet they NEVER watched in the first place!*

This is one of the weakest arguments ever, and shows that you have no idea about how hard it has been for women to not only get their own sports but how much sports scholarships are worth in the US.

"I get that self-ID is controversial. Get it. But it's been weaponised to death. Can we please park that aside and keep working on a fairer society where no one is discriminated against."

How can you put this aside when the premise of men in women's sports is being validated by one side that claims that they care about "working on a fair society"?

That's just common sense and instead of going full on Gilead, we should keep working on better mechanisms to make that happen.

Yes we should keep working on it, but that isn't going to happen when one side's mantra is #nodebate.

And lets not forget about trans lesbians and their female penis

Exactly!!

And it's not the women fighting against trans ideology that are sleep walking into Gilead.

We have been warning politicians on the left for a long time that their blind obsession with promoting trans rights over female rights is turning voters away from them. This issue has taken down two first ministers in Scotland so far.

The polling shows the Dems supporting males in female prisons and sports was among the top issues for voters swinging towards Trump.

YOU are the ones sleepwalking towards Gilead, towards the rise of Reform in the UK. Politicians really need to listen to what the mood of the majority of the public is on trans issues before we end up with Farage as PM.

BIossomtoes · 24/01/2025 22:53

Only four, thank Christ.

dubsie · 24/01/2025 21:23

Musk knew what he was doing, look the Americans have elected a convicted felon to be president. A president that encouraged the insurrection that resulted in law enforcement officers being attacked and left politicians fearing for their safety. Day one Trump has pardoned the felons responsible for violent during this event. What does that tell you about what is coming? Trump has just emboldened the far right and Musk is simply doing the same

This is the first week...can you imagine what the next five years will be like.

dubsie · 24/01/2025 21:03

Freedom of speech requires rules, you have the right to voice an opinion and people have the right to challenge that, BUT it must be done in a polite and respectful manner. Inciting hate and violence is not a right....it's always been wrong and will continue to be wrong.

Zonder · 24/01/2025 19:36

birdsstartagain · 24/01/2025 11:42

Being so ideologically captured that you see everything through your ideological lens is not limited to any particular groups.

I form my opinions on the evidence I see in front of me, not on who else thinks what. Its very clear in the context of the speech that the gesture was to extend the heartfelt thanks he was talking about.

Macron does the same and no-one called him a nazi.

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That's exactly my point. You say you form your opinions on the evidence you see before you. So did these people, the Jews and the far right. So does everyone on this thread.

Honesty and integrity matter. I argue against people making wrong arguments and untruths even when they are arguing for a position I hold deeply myself. Because I value honesty and integrity.

You don't have a monopoly on this. Many of us would say the same. And that's why so many people are sticking to their view that Musk did a nazi salute
Can't you see that there are two sides?

user22446688 · 24/01/2025 16:58

Yeah, nothing says funny like some Nazi puns. Even the ADL couldn't stomach this one.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1882406209187409976

x.com

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1882406209187409976

dogfrogdog · 24/01/2025 14:53

And FWIW I just looked up what Lammy has said about Trump - and agree.

a “tyrant in a toupee,” a “serial liar and a cheat,” “deluded, dishonest, xenophobic, narcissistic” — and “no friend of Britain.”

Not really sure how you can disagree with that (ok maybe not the toupee part but that is pretty funny).

dogfrogdog · 24/01/2025 14:50

@birdsstartagain what's revealing is all the pro right sympathisers flooding MN with their weird pro fascist agenda.

birdsstartagain · 24/01/2025 14:36

@dogfrogdog

Very, very revealing that you find people valuing integrity and honestly more than agreeing with their 'tribe' to be laughable. Very revealing.

birdsstartagain · 24/01/2025 14:34

HawkinsTigers · 24/01/2025 14:07

I just watched both to compare, they’re not the same movement.

Musk, sort of ‘punches’ out at an angle to his body with a stiff and pointed arm and hand and has a tightened expression on his face. Macron puts a softer arm and hand up in front of him in the general direction of the crowd while he is smiling.

There’s a huge difference in both videos

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All you have described is the difference in their body language. Musk has awkward stiff body language in all his movements. It wasn't something he only did in this moment. All his movements are like this.

To make the nazi case you have to ignore:

  1. Musk's normal body language and movement
  2. The context of his speech, and what he has just been saying about heartfelt thanks
  3. the fact that Nazis salutes were not given in the context that Musk did.
MissyB1 · 24/01/2025 14:08

dubsie · 24/01/2025 08:43

Next you'll see them burning books they don't like, rounding up journalists who print stuff they don't like and black listing them...in the end unspeakable things will happen to certain groups.

We've seen it before many times and we just think we are different. But it's happened before and it will happen again.

People need to accept that we are all different and it's not a crime to be different. Christianity teaches tolerance and love. I'm happy to talk to a neo nazi but I have the right to call out his views as deeply wrong. Platforms like Twitter and Facebook should filter out anything hateful, violent and discriminatory...it's no different to having TV content filtered. Young minds need protection from all this noise and learn love and compassion and my view is that the media is hurting vulnerable young minds by imprinting this rubbish from an early age.

Children should be playing, fishing, learning about the world, making friends and being themselves and it's not a politicians job to go on a woke war or attack someone for their views.

I've made my decision that the UK will become one of Trump's battle grounds and I've put my house on the market and I'll be waving my EU passport when I enter Ireland and I ain't coming back.

I'm waiting for my Irish passport to come through, definitely got Ireland as my escape plan if needed.

HawkinsTigers · 24/01/2025 14:07

birdsstartagain · 24/01/2025 13:42

Dear Lord! Its the same movement. Hand placed over the heart and then an outstretched arm towards the people he is showing appreciation of. Same movement. Same context.

The only difference is Musk is slightly more angular and stiff in his movements - but then that's his body movements in general. So that difference would be expected. Its the same gesture, in the same context, but slightly delivered differently in someone who has more relaxed body language than in someone who has stiffer more angular body language.

The desperation to see this movement, out of context of what he was in actually talking about, but only in context of your pre-existing belief that people with politics you dislike are nazis, is absolutely blatant.

I just watched both to compare, they’re not the same movement.

Musk, sort of ‘punches’ out at an angle to his body with a stiff and pointed arm and hand and has a tightened expression on his face. Macron puts a softer arm and hand up in front of him in the general direction of the crowd while he is smiling.

There’s a huge difference in both videos

FrippEnos · 24/01/2025 13:57

StandFirm

*it seems some people care so passionately about women's sports that they're willing to throw away all the social progress made in the last 50 years"

But you are happy to throw away years of hard forth for women's rights?

"in the same of something that I bet they NEVER watched in the first place!*

This is one of the weakest arguments ever, and shows that you have no idea about how hard it has been for women to not only get their own sports but how much sports scholarships are worth in the US.

"I get that self-ID is controversial. Get it. But it's been weaponised to death. Can we please park that aside and keep working on a fairer society where no one is discriminated against."

How can you put this aside when the premise of men in women's sports is being validated by one side that claims that they care about "working on a fair society"?

That's just common sense and instead of going full on Gilead, we should keep working on better mechanisms to make that happen.

Yes we should keep working on it, but that isn't going to happen when one side's mantra is #nodebate.

And lets not forget about trans lesbians and their female penis

Hoppinggreen · 24/01/2025 13:56

birdsstartagain · 24/01/2025 13:49

But you can't defend your position. I can quite clearly outline mine.

Ok, Musk delivered this movement in the context of expressing heartfelt thanks to all the people who worked for and supported the Republican election campaign.
Are you saying that this is the context in which the Nazi's delivered their salutes? Was it an expression of heartfelt gratitude delivered in moments of exuberant joy?

No. But you will maintain your position despite it being delivered completely out of context of the purpose of actual Nazi salutes.

Because you are ideologically and tribally committed to your position despite all reason, all context and all evidence.

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We don't agree and that is OK. I know what I see in Musks video.
It is a shame though that you don't feel confident enough in your opinion that you have to get others to validate it.
And you have no idea at all what my ideology is

birdsstartagain · 24/01/2025 13:51

dogfrogdog · 24/01/2025 13:48

there are so many people jumping to defend Musk , deny his far right links and and deny it's a nazi salute, I'm wondering if some people are being paid to troll and infiltrate MN lately. All over every board. Defending Tommy Robinson, defending Nazi salutes, defending trump and Musk. It's disturbing.

No. Not defending Musk. Just countering blatant untruths.

Honesty and integrity matter. I argue against people making wrong arguments and untruths even when they are arguing for a position I hold deeply myself. Because I value honesty and integrity.

birdsstartagain · 24/01/2025 13:49

Hoppinggreen · 24/01/2025 13:43

You believe its the same and I do not.

Show quote history

But you can't defend your position. I can quite clearly outline mine.

Ok, Musk delivered this movement in the context of expressing heartfelt thanks to all the people who worked for and supported the Republican election campaign.
Are you saying that this is the context in which the Nazi's delivered their salutes? Was it an expression of heartfelt gratitude delivered in moments of exuberant joy?

No. But you will maintain your position despite it being delivered completely out of context of the purpose of actual Nazi salutes.

Because you are ideologically and tribally committed to your position despite all reason, all context and all evidence.

dogfrogdog · 24/01/2025 13:48

there are so many people jumping to defend Musk , deny his far right links and and deny it's a nazi salute, I'm wondering if some people are being paid to troll and infiltrate MN lately. All over every board. Defending Tommy Robinson, defending Nazi salutes, defending trump and Musk. It's disturbing.

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