So does "far right" mean you're concerned about the impacts of mass immigration?

I am too. Let’s stop the bollocks and revise the facts. I was recently abroad and this subject came up with friends with left leaning views. Was very surprised they called the U.K. people naive. We have been gaslighted for so long. We have horrible gangs and criminals running our streets. A few people points out how there are documented evidence on tv and other sources.

My real experience:
My husband is right of central, with concerns over immigration. If this comes up amongst the majority of our left wing friends, and he voices his concerns, they label
him right wing or far right and it gets awkward to the point he has started to not share his opinions anymore.

It is happening. And I see it every day on social media too.

Historically, left and far-left groups were often anti-immigration because they understood supply and demand e.g. more immigrants led to lower wages and more power to capitalists.

"Cesar Chavez was, in fact, deeply hostile toward “wetbacks,”. He was relentless in his efforts to halt immigration from Mexico and was active in pursuing the deportation of those already here. Chavez claimed that undocumented workers were driving down wages, and being used as strikebreakers. Both complaints had merit, of course."

I’m in favour of immigration, and I’m not a socialist.

But there are several distinct left-wing arguments against. I mostly disagree with the below but I can’t see how any of them can be called far right (except arguably the final one, on a horseshoe principle).

The most convincing, to my mind, is the idea that permissive migration and a strong welfare state are incompatible. Both on financial grounds and because migration tends to undermine the solidarity needed to win support for welfare. That seems to hold up empirically pretty well.

Another is that fairness, in a democratic socialist system, is owed first to the working classes of that demos. That immigration tends to undermine and compete with the working class, for the benefit of the capitalist classes. This view might limit numbers, or types of occupation a migrant can take up.

A third is that it leads to exploitation of migrants in the destination country. A version of the above, but out of paternalistic concern for the migrants. This view probably approves of many forms of migration, but still imposes limits and controls (eg on minimum wages a migrant could take). The migrant is taken not to be able to choose what is best for them.

A fourth is that migration allows the talented and mobile to opt out of their countries to seek their betterment elsewhere. That it brain-drains and hollows out societies, especially poor ones, holding back national development that benefits all, for the personal enrichment of those who leave and their families. That it’s fundamentally anti-communitarian.

A fifth is about cultural displacement (a sort of gentrification argument). I don’t think I’ve heard this from the left about the UK, but certainly about elsewhere. Usually concerns that migrants from a richer or more dominant culture (eg, Westerners, Chinese diasporas, Indians) are driving out or despoiling a local culture taken to be more worthy.

A sixth is about high-skill/rich migration. The anti-elite arguments (sometimes tied in with conspirisicm or antisemitism) about global capitalists and globalism.

And finally, though it’s not really an argument, the historical fact that several explicitly socialist/ communist governments in the 20th century have had extremely strict border controls, near-prohibiting people either entering or leaving.

When you said:

genuinely think having less people in the country than we currently have is a good thing

You knew it was pure fantasy.

In Sweden they are paying people to go back to their countries: it saves them money in the long-run. In Australia they had a very effective policy saying that if you came into the country illegally "You will never make Australia your home" meaning that residence or citizenship would never be given to illegal immigrants.

Absolutely. That's why it is a mainstream concern and not a far right belief.

@username299

"How do you think we should get rid off people living here?"

Well for starters the current birth rate of 1.6 is below the replacement level of 2.1 births which without immigration would lead to a net decline in population.

Secondly there is emigration though if the UK restricts people coming in then other countries would presumably restrict Brits going to their countries.

As for forced deportation which I guess is the angle you are stirring for then in reality there is no practical or socially acceptable means of doing this.

Just look at the graph- it is simply not sustainable in terms of infrastructure, health care, housing, education, transport to have the current levels of immigration, the vast majority of which is legal migration.

How do you think we should get rid off people living here?

@Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast Yes. They said that they felt like no one believed that they were in a real relationship, despite having two teenagers together! It’s unbelievable how people who are simply following the application processes are treated. 😡

I genuinely think having less people in the country than we currently have is a good thing both economically, environmentally and for society.

I think it's madness that the UK imports labour from abroad when there are 9 million economically inactive people of working age being paid benefits not to work.

If Amazon couldn't use cheap imported labour to deliver goods then they would have a choice of either paying more to those already resident in the country or not deliver goods and go bust.

This has absolutely nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with basic economics.

My husbands Kenyan. We had a hell of a time of it. We married nearly 30 years ago and getting him indefinite leave to remain and, later, citizenship was a pain in the arse. To put it mildly. At times it felt like we were bloody criminals.

"Do you believe someone who is not ethnically english say can ever be as british as you? Would you ever consider someone who is non white to be British?"

I would throw it back at you. Do you believe someone born in Delhi to white English parents is just as Indian as someone born in Delhi to indigenous Hindu parents? If not, why not? If yes, why are they just as Indian?

Likewise in Kenya, Nigeria, Zambia countries I know well, there are many white people born in those countries whose parents and even grand-parents were born there and I can assure you that none of the majority black Kenyans, Nigerians or Zambians think the white people born there are Kenyan, Nigerian or Zambian in the same way as they are.

Why do you think that is? Do you think the majority Africans are all just mistaken or wrong? Why do you think the majority black Africans are so confused and unable to realise that the white people born there are actually just as Kenyan as they are? Can they be educated out of it?

I am not sure how you can be in favour of a fairer society and then be against migration. I am well aware that such wolves in sheep’s clothing exist but it’s all for political gain.

Yes - In an ideal world I believe we should have open borders. Admittedly, we are a long way from where that would be possible. Hopefully that generations that come after us will do a better job of looking after our world and those who are less fortunate.

Good for you.

@username299 , Musk is an irrelevance to me.

Just in the past year 3 police officers from GMP have been on trial /sacked for sexually assaulting a child when responding to a call,(the audacity!!)rape and the rape of a child.
All white btw.

Same police forces that brutalised and strip searched women.

There was no fear. Those girls meant nothing to them. It was a handy excuse to shift blame and focus.

Those girls weren't ignored because they were white. They were ignored because of misogyny and class. A police officer wrote in a report that it was a 'lifestyle choice'. A white police officer.

No one cared about them because they were seen as unimportant. If they had been the children of MPs and CEOs, they wouldn't have been ignored.

They were predated upon because they were vulnerable. The people who didn't take them seriously were predominantly white.

😂 too true

Yes..its all over the news..the rape of white girls ignored because of who they were raped by

@confusedeffie

If you are concerned about the numbers of people immigrating to the UK, then yes that makes you far right. You may not want to believe it but that’s the truth.

Is that a general rule (ie without limit), or a comment on numbers relative to today’s rate?

What about left-wing arguments against mass migration? Are those concerns far-right too? Or do you think there are no true left-wing arguments to place limits under any circumstances on migration?

The reasons police in Oldham, Rotherham etc. overlooked the rape gangs are the same reasons police overlook them here.

Anyone who buys the "fear of being seen as racist" is either incredibly naive or deluded.

What? Entire police forces? Councils? Social worker teams?
Institutions that ,ironically, have been proven to be systematically racist?

Or the demographic of the girls played a part , never mind corruption, bribes, blackmail and possibly even taking part.

However , the "fear of racism" play not only was it a good excuse (because so many bought it) but it also directed anger and attention some place else.

I've been called far right because of my concerns over immigration. I come from a family that are paid Labour members, but even they are now chatting about it. Hmm