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Politics

So does "far right" mean you're concerned about the impacts of mass immigration?

388 replies

genesis92 · 03/01/2025 16:13

Cause I'm far right if so then!

Genuinely interested to hear what people consider as being "far right". I put it in quotation marks cause the term is so over-used incorrectly, it's actually lost all meaning.

OP posts:
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Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 17:03

EmmaMaria · 04/01/2025 16:54

But given that he is also calling for the release of Tommy Robinson, are we then to assume that trafficking girls is ok provided it's white men like him and his mates who do it? He (and some people on here) seem to be only interested in highlightiong these things when it is Asian men involved. To be clear, no men should be grooming girls of any age or women for trafficking or anything else, but there does seem to be a "free pass" when it comes to the white men doing it. Men it would appear like Tommy Robinson and his mate Andrew Tate. Perhaps Elon Musk should be commenting on them?

Oh, hang on. He has been hasn't he? Amongst the many things they share in common...https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-andrew-tate-4chan-x-twitter-high-status-males-b2606622.html

This was three months ago - and not the only example (hence lobbying for the release of Tommy Robinson).

People who praise Elon Musk for this are in bed with the enemy - you, those girls, all are nothing to him. He's superior to you all.

Frankly he and his mates can fuck off to their dream republic of high-statius males. I nominate Naen or Runit Island to site the republic. They won't be high-status after a few months there!

Unfortunately in this country we only approve of the "right sort" of messenger. And we focus on the messenger rather than the message.

BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 17:01

@EmmaMaria Musk himself has several allegations and lawsuits against him for sexual assault/harassment. Latest filed last year in June. Funny that.

OneAmberFinch · 04/01/2025 16:59

JRSKSSBH · 04/01/2025 12:35

Family reunification is something Denmark has clamped down on hard and it has helped to reduce their migration numbers a lot. I read something in one of the Sunday papers last year about the abuse of student visas and the ability for a student to bring with them 3, 4 or 5 dependents. It is/ was possible to segue from a postgraduate student visa to a work visa, stay in this country for the necessary period of years and then apply to stay. The problem was this route wasn’t being used by high quality graduates studying at Russell Group universities, but for studies with low grade ex-poly institutions by individuals who don’t possess great intelligence or skills (of whom the country already has
a decent supply) and who won’t contribute enough to the country financially meaning they take more from the state than they give.

Exactly.

Not to mention said universities not even enforcing attendance while their students just go and do deliveroo/uber under fake or borrowed accounts.

Why do we need to prop up 3rd-tier universities again?

EmmaMaria · 04/01/2025 16:54

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 11:03

It's incredibly sad but not relevant here. I'm not interested in Elon Musk's agenda or views about child marriage or what he does in the US. I'm interested in the effect his actions (irrelevant of his own motive) has on highlighting this current issue about Asian grooming gangs in the UK.

But given that he is also calling for the release of Tommy Robinson, are we then to assume that trafficking girls is ok provided it's white men like him and his mates who do it? He (and some people on here) seem to be only interested in highlightiong these things when it is Asian men involved. To be clear, no men should be grooming girls of any age or women for trafficking or anything else, but there does seem to be a "free pass" when it comes to the white men doing it. Men it would appear like Tommy Robinson and his mate Andrew Tate. Perhaps Elon Musk should be commenting on them?

Oh, hang on. He has been hasn't he? Amongst the many things they share in common...https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-andrew-tate-4chan-x-twitter-high-status-males-b2606622.html

This was three months ago - and not the only example (hence lobbying for the release of Tommy Robinson).

People who praise Elon Musk for this are in bed with the enemy - you, those girls, all are nothing to him. He's superior to you all.

Frankly he and his mates can fuck off to their dream republic of high-statius males. I nominate Naen or Runit Island to site the republic. They won't be high-status after a few months there!

What is the sexist theory shared by Elon Musk for a republic of ‘high-status males’

Misogynistic influencer Andrew Tate has identified himself as “high-status male” in the past

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-andrew-tate-4chan-x-twitter-high-status-males-b2606622.html

jokeynever · 04/01/2025 16:36

genesis92 · 03/01/2025 23:44

So you think the levels of immigration over the last few years are a "net benefit"?.

Only a very small percentage (I think around 16%) of the vast immigration numbers come over on high skilled work visas. The rest are students/dependents etc.

It's not a question of what I think. The subject has been studied by people who know more about it than me, who have access to much more comprehensive data than med, and they have repeatedly come to that conclusion. As there are clearly understandable reasons for it (immigrants usually come to the country in young adulthood, whereupon they can soon start working and paying taxes, without having been through the 18 years of childhood as a net drain on state resources that native born people have) I have no reason to doubt that conclusion.

And the student visas are basically supporting our higher education sector. Many universities are now on the point of bankruptcy, and having to massively reduce their offering, due to reductions in the cash cow that was foreign students. Why the f* do we want to do away with that and the obvious benefits it brings to UK nationals in higher ed? All to appease the stupid bigots who don't understand the maths.

AIBot · 04/01/2025 15:38

dcbgr · 04/01/2025 00:40

Good question.

First you are incorrect, the largest number are study visas. This is a well-known, and rather dubious route. Universities actively recruit huge numbers of people mainly from India and Nigeria who mainly want to come to the UK for an opportunity of settling. If they pay large fees they get a chance to turn their visa into an opportunity to work and settle. These study immigrants cost the UK more than they contribute. Twenty years ago UK higher education was able to train our own professionals without relying on fees from these 'pretend' students. Universities should go back to focusing on educating UK students not taking money from people who want to emigrate not be educated.

Second are work visas. That is very obvious, the UK should train and educate its own workers and not import people who a) would do much more good in their own countries b) are often not trained to the same standards and skills as in the UK c) cost tax-payers more than they pay in taxes. Most low-paid workers (care, food, services) are a large net cost to tax-payers as has been convincingly shown by studies from the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark.

Third is family re-unification or chain migration. This should just be stopped. It obviously doesn't make sense that if one person comes and then they bring their six children and seven siblings and the seven siblings have six children each and they all get to come and then the six children's partners bring their parents and siblings....And if they come from Africa, the middle east or Asia they end up costing the taxpayer around one million USD over their life time as well as adding to pollution, congestion, housing shortage and decline in social capital.

Above in response to this post

AIBot · 04/01/2025 15:37

This is my point - this is the kind of debate we need to be able to have without facing accusations of racism. If the current government made these policy changes and communicated them well, the majority of reasonable concerns around immigration would be addressed, beneficial immigration would still be encouraged.

But there’s a minority that are are exploiting the situation for their own ends.

TooBigForMyBoots · 04/01/2025 14:52

mumandmumber · 03/01/2025 23:17

My real experience:
My husband is right of central, with concerns over immigration. If this comes up amongst the majority of our left wing friends, and he voices his concerns, they label
him right wing or far right and it gets awkward to the point he has started to not share his opinions anymore.

It is happening. And I see it every day on social media too.

You're husband is right wing, you said so yourself. Why does he not like it when people say it?

1dayatatime · 04/01/2025 13:23

BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 10:45

White working class people don't matter to large parts of the establishment.

There's definitely a hierarchy of mattering. Not necessarily race based, but more lack of power and prejudice based.

This was epitomised by Emily Thornberry's tweet and resignation:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30148768.amp

JRSKSSBH · 04/01/2025 12:35

dcbgr · 04/01/2025 00:40

Good question.

First you are incorrect, the largest number are study visas. This is a well-known, and rather dubious route. Universities actively recruit huge numbers of people mainly from India and Nigeria who mainly want to come to the UK for an opportunity of settling. If they pay large fees they get a chance to turn their visa into an opportunity to work and settle. These study immigrants cost the UK more than they contribute. Twenty years ago UK higher education was able to train our own professionals without relying on fees from these 'pretend' students. Universities should go back to focusing on educating UK students not taking money from people who want to emigrate not be educated.

Second are work visas. That is very obvious, the UK should train and educate its own workers and not import people who a) would do much more good in their own countries b) are often not trained to the same standards and skills as in the UK c) cost tax-payers more than they pay in taxes. Most low-paid workers (care, food, services) are a large net cost to tax-payers as has been convincingly shown by studies from the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark.

Third is family re-unification or chain migration. This should just be stopped. It obviously doesn't make sense that if one person comes and then they bring their six children and seven siblings and the seven siblings have six children each and they all get to come and then the six children's partners bring their parents and siblings....And if they come from Africa, the middle east or Asia they end up costing the taxpayer around one million USD over their life time as well as adding to pollution, congestion, housing shortage and decline in social capital.

Family reunification is something Denmark has clamped down on hard and it has helped to reduce their migration numbers a lot. I read something in one of the Sunday papers last year about the abuse of student visas and the ability for a student to bring with them 3, 4 or 5 dependents. It is/ was possible to segue from a postgraduate student visa to a work visa, stay in this country for the necessary period of years and then apply to stay. The problem was this route wasn’t being used by high quality graduates studying at Russell Group universities, but for studies with low grade ex-poly institutions by individuals who don’t possess great intelligence or skills (of whom the country already has
a decent supply) and who won’t contribute enough to the country financially meaning they take more from the state than they give.

Dbank · 04/01/2025 12:18

If you're asking, does being "concerned about immigration" mean you're "far right", I would say absolutely not.

The majority of people in the UK are "concerned about immigration", (possibly as much as 70% according to YouGov)

I think it was a huge mistake for the Government to dismiss the civil unrest in the summer as being from the "Far Right", without acknowledging there's a lot of more moderate people who feel there concerns aren't being addressed by the established political parties.

The moderate or far right are filling this vacuum, and I think we'll see this demonstrated in the local elections in May.

Do Brits think that immigration has been too high or low in the last 10 years?

Generally speaking, do you think the level of immigration into Britain over the last ten years has been too high, too low or about right?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/do-brits-think-that-immigration-has-been-too-high-or-low-in-the-last-10-years?period=1yr

JRSKSSBH · 04/01/2025 12:03

BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 11:30

It's incredibly sad but not relevant here. I'm not interested in Elon Musk's agenda or views about child marriage or what he does in the US. I'm interested in the effect his actions (irrelevant of his own motive) has on highlighting this current issue about Asian grooming gangs in the UK.

I think this is the main difference between us. Intent matters to me. Using these girls and their abuse and trauma for his own interests and agenda , can never be a good thing. It's still another powerful man using them for his own gain.

Intent matters….. to the exclusion of everything else? Kindly, that is rather simplistic and childish.

JRSKSSBH · 04/01/2025 12:00

OneAmberFinch · 04/01/2025 11:50

I don't really care about being called far right, same as I don't care about being called a fascist TERF.

Immigration is clearly unsustainable in all categories.

Work visas going to convenience store workers and takeaway shop managers.

Study visas going to "business college" students who don't go to class and just do deliveroo anyway.

Refugee visas going to anyone who shows up on a boat and "lost" their documents.

Family visas going to cousins of people from patriarchal, radically conservative societies who came via the previous routes.

And that's just the people on visas - ignoring all the overstayers in the grey economy doing gig work on borrowed accounts.

I'm an immigrant myself but the benefits Britain is getting from immigration aren't outweighing the costs.

This. Long investigative piece in the Telegraph this morning about the NHS now offering priority services to undocumented migrants. Elderly citizens can wait a week for a doctor’s appointment but young, male failed asylum seekers get full medical assessments and access to Consultant care. How is that fair? If this issue and more is being highlighted by Musk then Bravo. Labour started this by sending 100 activist to campaign for the Dems.

JRSKSSBH · 04/01/2025 11:55

BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 10:54

@Nordione1 it's absolute bullshit , for one thing only. There are hundreds of thousands of children in the US going through the same thing(demographics might vary, but that shouldn't matter right?)right now, but not a peep about that from Musk. Not one. If he cares so much why not at least try to highlight that (at any point in time) ? It would be perfect timing right now, really. But that doesn't suit the agenda. Because the agenda is not these girls, it's not justice, it's not solutions, the agenda is interfering in UK politics.

Just as the Labour Party meddled in the US elections.

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 11:50

SallyWD · 04/01/2025 11:33

There is absolutely no reason for Keir Starmer to resign. He needs to be allowed to do his job without right wing billionaires trying to destabilise this country.
I'm going to hide this thread now because it's making me agitated and spoiling my Saturday morning peace.

Yes it's hugely distressing. Not nice to think about for anyone but there we are.

OneAmberFinch · 04/01/2025 11:50

I don't really care about being called far right, same as I don't care about being called a fascist TERF.

Immigration is clearly unsustainable in all categories.

Work visas going to convenience store workers and takeaway shop managers.

Study visas going to "business college" students who don't go to class and just do deliveroo anyway.

Refugee visas going to anyone who shows up on a boat and "lost" their documents.

Family visas going to cousins of people from patriarchal, radically conservative societies who came via the previous routes.

And that's just the people on visas - ignoring all the overstayers in the grey economy doing gig work on borrowed accounts.

I'm an immigrant myself but the benefits Britain is getting from immigration aren't outweighing the costs.

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 11:40

I know this is the Spectator and Douglas Murray who as a centre right commentator probably is on many of your blacklists but in this case I (personally) think he is talking sense and is providing balance and clarity so perhaps don't dismiss him out of hand? As an alternative viewpoint which deals comprehensively with many of the points raised in this thread.

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BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 11:39

@Nordione1 if you’re willing to read and listen ....

Concerns about the abuse of underage girls by members of minority communities in towns in Yorkshire, Lancashire, Greater Manchester and some Midlands counties first surfaced in 20022**, when they were raised by the then-Labour MP for Keighley, Ann Cryer.
Subsequent reportss and investigationss**confirmed that some people believed “a fear of being labelled ‘racist’ had hindered the ability of official agencies to combat the grooming and sexual exploitation”.
However, Mr Starmer did not become director of public prosecutions and head of the CPS until 1 November 20088*
A number of prosecutions involving grooming gangs were taking place around the time Mr Starmer took up his new post.
In the first of a series of articles exposing the grooming gangs scandal, published in January 2011, The Timess* identified 17 grooming gang prosecutions dating back to 1997. Of the 17 cases, 14 had taken place since 2008, the year Mr Starmer became the director of public prosecutions.
“In total, 56 people, with an average age of 28, were found guilty of crimes including rape, child abduction, indecent assault and sex with a child. Three of the 56 were white, 53 were Asian. Of those 50 were Muslim and a majority were members of the British Pakistani community,” the newspaper reported. *
*
Mr Starmer was the head of the CPS in 2009, when a key decision not to prosecute a case in Rochdale was takenn.

According to evidence given to the Home Affairs Committeee**, the decision was based on CPS guidelines of the time which suggested a jury might see victims as unreliable if they had come forward some time after the offence, if they had deviated or changed their accounts, made use of drink or drugs or had subsequently gone back to the perpetrator. As a result, such cases were thought not to have a realistic prospect of achieving a conviction.
In 2011, Nazir Afzall, who at the time was director of prosecutions in London, was made chief prosecutor for the north west. He subsequently overturned the 2009 decision and a total of nine menn** were later convicted.
In a recent intervieww* Mr Afzal recalled: “The only way we could bring that case was to admit that we had failed these victims when they had first made a complaint in 2008. Keir was 100% behind the decision to publicly admit that we had got it wrong in the past.”
Following these convictions, Mr Starmer appointed Mr Afzall as the head of a newly formed national network of specialist prosecutors for child abuse and sexual exploitation. Mr Afzal went on to oversee numerous convictions against other grooming gangs.

An independent reportt* into child sexual abuse in Rotherham, published in 2014, noted that prior to leaving the CPS, Mr Starmer had established a new set of guideliness* around the prosecution of child sexual exploitation to prevent earlier mistakes from being repeated.

Has he not done enough? Sure, I can agree with that. No one did. Deliberately blocking prosecution of Asian rape gangs specifically? No.

SallyWD · 04/01/2025 11:33

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 11:28

That I do think is terrible yes. And will get worse. As I've said before, Keir needs to act fast. He could take responsibility and resign.

I think Elon Musk's has brought this issue which has, as you say, been rumbling on in this country for years, to international prominence.

There is absolutely no reason for Keir Starmer to resign. He needs to be allowed to do his job without right wing billionaires trying to destabilise this country.
I'm going to hide this thread now because it's making me agitated and spoiling my Saturday morning peace.

username299 · 04/01/2025 11:30

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 11:29

Well it's clearly not good enough.as it's kicked off again.

It's kicked off because the far right are stirring the pot. The richest man in the world has decided that he wants the UK PM to resign. He's supporting Farage.

BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 11:30

It's incredibly sad but not relevant here. I'm not interested in Elon Musk's agenda or views about child marriage or what he does in the US. I'm interested in the effect his actions (irrelevant of his own motive) has on highlighting this current issue about Asian grooming gangs in the UK.

I think this is the main difference between us. Intent matters to me. Using these girls and their abuse and trauma for his own interests and agenda , can never be a good thing. It's still another powerful man using them for his own gain.

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 11:29

username299 · 04/01/2025 11:26

Starmer has already spoken about this and said that cases were dropped because of lack of evidence. It's clearly in the reports that the victims were terrified to come forward.

You're just repeating things on social media. There's no evidence that Starmer prevented prosecutions or that Labour are preventing a proper investigation.

The Tories also refused a national enquiry saying that it was for the individual councils to investigate. I think there have already been six reports and a national child abuse enquiry.

Well it's clearly not good enough.as it's kicked off again.

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 11:28

SallyWD · 04/01/2025 11:19

But it's been headline news on and off for many years. I don't think Musk is bringing any new awareness to the issue. Everyone is already aware of what happened and finds it abhorrent. It would actually go so far as to say it's one of the most talked about and reported issues of the last decade.
Musk is publicly supporting Tommy Robinson who has made blatantly untrue and hateful claims against Muslims. Tommy has publically said that Islam is a cancer and that "every single Muslim" in the country "got away" with the 7/7 bombings. He once encouraged people to 'burn the mosques".
Do you really not see any of this as problematic? Innocent Muslims I know are getting attacked and verbally abused in the street because of this.

That I do think is terrible yes. And will get worse. As I've said before, Keir needs to act fast. He could take responsibility and resign.

I think Elon Musk's has brought this issue which has, as you say, been rumbling on in this country for years, to international prominence.

username299 · 04/01/2025 11:26

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 11:20

It does make sense but one issue re destabilising the government is the elephant in the room being the PM who stopped prosecutions of the groomers. He needs to be held accountable for that. We can't brush this under the carpet. I don't have a teenage daughter but I can try and empathise at how horrendous it must be for the victims to be failed at such an institutional level and for people to continue to have the fear it might still happen to their own child as Labour are preventing a proper investigation to protect Keir Starmer.

Starmer has already spoken about this and said that cases were dropped because of lack of evidence. It's clearly in the reports that the victims were terrified to come forward.

You're just repeating things on social media. There's no evidence that Starmer prevented prosecutions or that Labour are preventing a proper investigation.

The Tories also refused a national enquiry saying that it was for the individual councils to investigate. I think there have already been six reports and a national child abuse enquiry.

Nordione1 · 04/01/2025 11:20

BlueSilverCats · 04/01/2025 11:11

@Nordione1 I honestly don't think it's good for the country. Because , While people are arguing, attempts at destabilising the government are being done, and what not, nothing practical is actually being done.

There was already a review done in 2022 , findings published, recommendations made and not acted on.

Even if another review was commissioned, which would set a terrible precedent in my view, it would again take years, cost millions, and the findings would be very similar to previous ones.

What I would like to see is action being taken , recommendations being implemented and policy changed NOW,in the next year(s), on reports already done. Because all the failings have already been highlighted, we don't need another year or two for another paper to say more of the same thing, and then look at changing things.

Hope this makes sense.

It does make sense but one issue re destabilising the government is the elephant in the room being the PM who stopped prosecutions of the groomers. He needs to be held accountable for that. We can't brush this under the carpet. I don't have a teenage daughter but I can try and empathise at how horrendous it must be for the victims to be failed at such an institutional level and for people to continue to have the fear it might still happen to their own child as Labour are preventing a proper investigation to protect Keir Starmer.