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Politics

Angry at scrapping of 2 child limit

580 replies

BearBuggy · 04/12/2024 15:42

I know there are a few families that find themselves in rotten circumstances and this isn’t aimed at them . However I live in an area where having children to continue to receive benefits was the norm and only now the cap is in place has that stopped.

The Scottish government has now announced it will be scrapped. I am so angry I’m paying towards people breeding children they can’t afford. I didn’t vote SNp this time because of this, as did many of my friends. They lost heavily in my area but still seem to not care what the tax payer is saying.

OP posts:
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Startrekkeruniverse · 04/12/2024 19:38

albapunk · 04/12/2024 16:21

I've never understood why people fail to see that there IS many who absolutely relish being on benefits, and many children will not see the extra money as their parents will continue to use it to make poor choices.

I come from a very deprived Scottish town. The roots of poverty run far deeper than any money thrown at it would ever reach. Massive changes in attitude are required, generations of families on benefits needs to be stopped, I know MANY people who have 0 intentions of work and some how find loopholes. Including by having children.

I've been on benefits twice, it was utterly hellish and the hoops I jumped through were ridiculous just to receive a pittance.

We need a robust welfare state as anyone could fall on hard times, but we also need intervention to ensure we have people who want to grow and break these moulds.

Those in genuine need, should always get what they need and I don't think this is what tbe OP was talking about.

Agree with this totally. I know several people who choose to live on benefits and have had kids to secure benefits and housing. It’s a way of life for some.

Mo819 · 04/12/2024 19:34

BearBuggy · 04/12/2024 19:19

Not quite that straightforward. They will also get extra SCP as it’s Scotland. The requirement to work is also extended which is why children are generally born 3 years apart.

So an extra 40 quid a week then deffinatly worth it. It costs a hell of a lot more than that to feed and clothes a child.

SerenePeach · 04/12/2024 19:34

Choobakka · 04/12/2024 19:08

Well my husband and I do it and don't begrudge it. HTH.

Well a lot OP people do and do begrudge it. HTH.

inkymoose · 04/12/2024 19:31

ByMerryKoala · 04/12/2024 19:21

906000 was the net migration June 22 to June 23.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3degx4029ko

Edited

Scotland receives around 6% of net migrants into the UK, which is lower than its 8.4% population share.
source: Office for National Statistics

JudgeJ · 04/12/2024 19:31

Lemonadeand · 04/12/2024 19:00

It’s interesting to me that the criticism of child benefit is mostly directed at families in poverty.

We receive £42.45 child benefit per week (both teachers). We spent £32 per week on swimming lessons.

Shouldn’t you be angry at people like us, spending tax payers’ money on swimming lessons? Rather than being angry at the people who struggle to feed their children?

If your children were going hungry because of your decision to pay for swimming lessons then, Yes, people would be justified in being angry. As it is they're not so it's irrelevant.
No-one had ever been able to explain to me how different families on exactly the same income, be it from work or benefits, can give their children a vastly different lifestyle. There are many people who are able to manage on their benefits because they try to, not all do sadly and that's their own fault.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 04/12/2024 19:30

SassK · 04/12/2024 19:27

The SNP know their audience - handouts have always been their USP, they're upping the handouts ante to a laughable level out of sheer desperation for votes.
They're also spending a fortune on council housing to house people who can't actually afford to pay rent/full rent. Young working people, who plan their families in a responsible way, can't get a council house because priority is given to people who've gone ahead and had children they can't afford, and mortgage rates are too high for young people to get a foot on the ladder.

Your second paragraph is rather odd. Complaining about building more social housing, while simultaneously complaining about the lack of social housing.

It's also local authorities who decide and dictate housing priority, not central government. It's usually just number of dependants that decides priority, so a family of 6 is just a family of 6 regardless of anything else. Homelessness is obviously a priority, so of course LA's are going to provide housing to homeless families before they will to a family already in a fixed address. Are you seriously suggesting it should be the other way around?

LadeOde · 04/12/2024 19:30

Lemonadeand · 04/12/2024 19:11

If I wanted an extra £20 per week I can think of much easier ways of doing it than another pregnancy, childbirth and then parenting a baby or toddler. Jeez.

And because you can make sensible decisions that is why you are not living in poverty. The kind of people @BearBuggy op is talking about don't usually have the average IQ and so make poor decisions.

TinklySnail · 04/12/2024 19:30

ONS figures for unemployment.

Sensitive content
Angry at scrapping of 2 child limit
TheThreeCheesesOfTheApocalypse44 · 04/12/2024 19:29

It hasn't stopped people having kids tho.......that's the issue. So money is being stretched further and kids are suffering as a result.......this will hopefully save millions as social care involvement as a result of poverty will reduce.

ByMerryKoala · 04/12/2024 19:28

notbelieved · 04/12/2024 19:24

and how many years has that been going on for? do you expect other countries to take you in in the event of war or massive targetted attack on the UK?

Gosh, I was just demonstrating that it isn't a laughable, ridiculous or unachievable figure. I think this year is 750k.

30percent · 04/12/2024 19:28

Lemonadeand · 04/12/2024 19:00

It’s interesting to me that the criticism of child benefit is mostly directed at families in poverty.

We receive £42.45 child benefit per week (both teachers). We spent £32 per week on swimming lessons.

Shouldn’t you be angry at people like us, spending tax payers’ money on swimming lessons? Rather than being angry at the people who struggle to feed their children?

Hate to be the pedant but the two child limit is on universal credit/child tax credit not child benefit

SassK · 04/12/2024 19:27

The SNP know their audience - handouts have always been their USP, they're upping the handouts ante to a laughable level out of sheer desperation for votes.
They're also spending a fortune on council housing to house people who can't actually afford to pay rent/full rent. Young working people, who plan their families in a responsible way, can't get a council house because priority is given to people who've gone ahead and had children they can't afford, and mortgage rates are too high for young people to get a foot on the ladder.

TinklySnail · 04/12/2024 19:26

notbelieved · 04/12/2024 19:24

and how many years has that been going on for? do you expect other countries to take you in in the event of war or massive targetted attack on the UK?

You think British people will flee to France if war breaks out? Really?

notbelieved · 04/12/2024 19:24

ByMerryKoala · 04/12/2024 19:21

906000 was the net migration June 22 to June 23.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3degx4029ko

Edited

and how many years has that been going on for? do you expect other countries to take you in in the event of war or massive targetted attack on the UK?

Thatcastlethere · 04/12/2024 19:23

They need to lead with carrot not stick.. just because it's the children that suffer. And people aren't as in control of their fertility as much as we would like to pretend. I've fallen pregnant 3 times on contraception for example.... yet I have a friend actively trying to fall pregnant and it's been years and no joy.
Yes there may be people who think they'll have a kid to get some extra money.. but like any other benefits I do not think that justifies the amount of suffering it causes to people if you try and cap the benefit due to something people aren't always in control of.
And NO WOMAN ANYWHERE should EVER have to have an abortion they don't really want because they are worried about how to feed and clothe the child. Not in this wealthy country in this day and age. Women should only have abortions if that's what they genuinely want. I don't think the risk of some people taking advantage outweighs the risk of women being forced to terminate accidental pregnancies when they otherwise wouldn't have. You know coerced birth is wrong, why can't you see that coerced abortion is wrong? That's what the benefit cap leads to.
And then there's the effect on the children. When women really can't bring themselves to go through with an abortion or find out too late.. and they end up living in poverty. Which has a massive ripple effect across the entire family line. Kids born in poverty have far worse outcomes statistically and that carries on down the line.. their kids are more likely to live in poverty etc etc
I'm glad to see labour actually doing something about this.
You want to get people into work and off benefits? Give them access to good quality free education, give them a sense of home and ambition. Don't mire them in entrenched generational poverty. The cap doesn't actually get anyone off benefits or prevent a drain on the state, it was just a vote winning gimmick.. get vulnerable people blaming other vulnerable people for their problems.

ByMerryKoala · 04/12/2024 19:21

notbelieved · 04/12/2024 19:15

PMSL laughing. You reckon we take in a million immigrants a year?!

906000 was the net migration June 22 to June 23.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3degx4029ko

BearBuggy · 04/12/2024 19:19

Lemonadeand · 04/12/2024 19:11

If I wanted an extra £20 per week I can think of much easier ways of doing it than another pregnancy, childbirth and then parenting a baby or toddler. Jeez.

Not quite that straightforward. They will also get extra SCP as it’s Scotland. The requirement to work is also extended which is why children are generally born 3 years apart.

OP posts:
notbelieved · 04/12/2024 19:18

Surely that only works if the 3rd child becomes a net contributor?

There are thousands upon thousands of people out there doing essential jobs that will never be net contributors. What do you suggest? That we sterilize anyone on minimum wage? That we only allow people under 25 to do minimum wage work?

And as a teacher, I believe I am not a net contributor. Would you prefer I found other work?

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 04/12/2024 19:17

Cyclingmummy1 · 04/12/2024 19:15

Surely that only works if the 3rd child becomes a net contributor?

Theoretically yes, but you don't help the chances of that becoming reality by

  1. preventing people being able to have a 3rd child in the first place
  2. needlessly subjecting children to added poverty which just further hampers their opportunity
notbelieved · 04/12/2024 19:15

strawberrybubblegum · 04/12/2024 19:04

1 million net immigrants per year is absolutely not needed to replace our population.

To keep a steady population you need 2.1 births per woman (in a first world country). UK birthrate is 1.57 births per woman

So for full replacement, we need an extra 0.53 people per woman in the UK every 30 years (average maternal age).

That's 600k per year, not 1 million

And given that we're 13 million up from a generation ago - a whopping 20% increase in just 30 years - I think we could go a bit lower than that to gently reduce back down.

PMSL laughing. You reckon we take in a million immigrants a year?!

Cyclingmummy1 · 04/12/2024 19:15

Babyname2025 · 04/12/2024 16:41

Our fertility rate is already below replacement. We have a record number of people with fertility issues and a record number of people opting not to have children. I think the odd family having 3 kids is meant to balance that out.

Surely that only works if the 3rd child becomes a net contributor?

JRSKSSBH · 04/12/2024 19:12

BearBuggy · 04/12/2024 15:54

@Drivingoverlemons I agree child poverty needs addressing but don’t believe this is the solution. I live in an area with high poverty. I see hungry children every day without jackets and it’s heartbreaking.
Doesn’t stop the parents getting pissed at the weekend or enjoying a daily can of monster 🙄 Paid out of benefits as none of them work

This. It is not the right approach.

UnderTheStairs51 · 04/12/2024 19:11

Choobakka · 04/12/2024 19:02

Well quite. Plus the households where each parent can be on 95k and still receive child benefit.

It's not really about the fairy small amount of child benefit, it's the entitlement to other elements of UC that made multiple children more profitable.

SqueamishHamish · 04/12/2024 19:11

I do understand where you are coming from. Where I live it is mostly those on benefits that seem to have more than two kids. How can that be right? A long hard look at the benefit system is desperately needed across the country so that working pays. However, it is never the child's fault so on balance I think that the two child policy should be scrapped. It is pretty awful when you think about it.

Lemonadeand · 04/12/2024 19:11

Newsenmum · 04/12/2024 19:09

Do you really think people have children because they want extra money? Won’t the majority of them be having children anyway and just be poorer? Also I say ‘majority’ but we actually have an ageing population and a far fewer people are having kids. Considering it’s actually not much extra money I’d say let them crack on! Far more important things to wind me
up .

If I wanted an extra £20 per week I can think of much easier ways of doing it than another pregnancy, childbirth and then parenting a baby or toddler. Jeez.