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Original poster

Tories and human rights

29 replies

username8348 · 28/11/2024 07:35

Yesterday Badenoch held a press conference where she gave scant details on the Tories approach to immigration.

She said that getting rid off the Human Rights Act and coming out of the ECHR was the least radical thing they would do.

The ECHR and HRA protect the rights of everyone in society, not just asylum seekers.

Badenoch has also spoken of her disapproval of statutory rights.

Don't Tories like having rights or is it a case of they don't like other people having rights and they're willing to sacrifice their own for that reason?

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Original poster
username8348 · 28/11/2024 22:16

ilikecatsandponies · 28/11/2024 22:04

I think she's trying to be more reform than farage. See also Maga but without the pseudo Christian abortion stuff, just restricted to the business side of things.

In her first PMQ she was very focused on Trump but he's unpopular here. Farage has gone a bit mad. He wants to fiddle with abortion rights and have a debate on reducing abortion from 24 weeks.

He's offered to be a go between between Trump and the government and is calling Musk his friend.

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ilikecatsandponies · 28/11/2024 22:04

I think she's trying to be more reform than farage. See also Maga but without the pseudo Christian abortion stuff, just restricted to the business side of things.

Original poster
username8348 · 28/11/2024 21:43

Markham66 · 28/11/2024 21:22

Just checking that you are asserting the UK did not have Human Rights before the 1998 Act? So no fair trials? Unlawful detainment?

Great question. You can see a history of human rights in the UK here.

What the HRA did was incorporate the ECHR into domestic British law. Meaning you can take your case to a British court rather than ECtHR.

It also meant that public bodies and those carrying out public functions must respect your rights. Additionally it means that new laws are compatible with the ECHR and laws are interpreted in line with the ECHR.

Regarding rights before the HRA we had the ECHR, other international instruments and domestic law.

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Markham66 · 28/11/2024 21:22

Just checking that you are asserting the UK did not have Human Rights before the 1998 Act? So no fair trials? Unlawful detainment?

Original poster
username8348 · 28/11/2024 19:57

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 28/11/2024 14:53

I very much hope we keep all of our human rights. I. Can’t see why we would leave the EU agreement on that.

I think it's for two reasons. First, asylum seekers can't be sent to third countries that don't comply with the law. The ECtHR can stop people from leaving, which is what happened with the Rwanda scheme.

Second, they obviously want to make changes to the law reducing some rights.

It's very complicated to do. They would need to get rid off the HRA because it's dependent on the ECHR.

The HRA is tied up in a lot of domestic legislation as is the ECHR. The devolution of the other nations in the UK and the Good Friday Agreement would have to be redrawn. As would other international agreements.

It's made even more complicated by customary law and international law that also protects rights.

I just see the whole proposal as complicated, expensive and time consuming for little gain. It also strips British citizens of fundamental rights. I challenge anyone to look at the ECHR and tell me which rights they don't want.

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ssd · 28/11/2024 15:41

Interesting thread, thanks op

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 28/11/2024 14:53

I very much hope we keep all of our human rights. I. Can’t see why we would leave the EU agreement on that.

Original poster
username8348 · 28/11/2024 11:47

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 28/11/2024 11:36

I mean that when the Tories attack human rights, they are never talking their own but about yours. They keep themselves above the law.

Thank you for the clarification. I can't imagine how they would be able to maintain the fundamental rights of the ECHR unless there was a two tier system.

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marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 28/11/2024 11:36

I mean that when the Tories attack human rights, they are never talking their own but about yours. They keep themselves above the law.

Original poster
username8348 · 28/11/2024 11:01

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 28/11/2024 10:56

@username8348 Yes but they'll be protecting themselves and also big business.

I'm not clear about what you mean. It would be great if you could elaborate.

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marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 28/11/2024 10:56

@username8348 Yes but they'll be protecting themselves and also big business.

Zonder · 28/11/2024 10:56

Thanks @marmaladeandpeanutbutter that's a really useful link. How anyone can object to being aligned with that is a mystery to me.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 28/11/2024 10:54

I do think that now is the time to make sure people understand the implications of committing to the ECHR etc. People will be gaslighted that it's about protecting immigrants and nothing more.

Here is the one page summarised version

https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/simplifiedconvv_eng

Zonder · 28/11/2024 10:50

KoalaCalledKevin · 28/11/2024 09:05

I suppose Labour will be out within 4.5 years or sooner with any luck so it's wise you guys are already preparing for opposition again and discussing Conservative policies. Good on you.

What an odd thing to say. The opposition party has an important role, and their policies and opinions are relevant. It doesn't make any sense at all to ignore their views and just not discuss their existence until an election rolled around again.

It does show a certain attitude, doesn't it? This belief that the Tory party are the natural party of government and other parties don't count.

Original poster
username8348 · 28/11/2024 09:19

KoalaCalledKevin · 28/11/2024 09:05

I suppose Labour will be out within 4.5 years or sooner with any luck so it's wise you guys are already preparing for opposition again and discussing Conservative policies. Good on you.

What an odd thing to say. The opposition party has an important role, and their policies and opinions are relevant. It doesn't make any sense at all to ignore their views and just not discuss their existence until an election rolled around again.

I've noticed this attitude a few times. If you criticise the Tories you're told you're living in the past.

I find the path the Tories are on very concerning.

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KoalaCalledKevin · 28/11/2024 09:05

I suppose Labour will be out within 4.5 years or sooner with any luck so it's wise you guys are already preparing for opposition again and discussing Conservative policies. Good on you.

What an odd thing to say. The opposition party has an important role, and their policies and opinions are relevant. It doesn't make any sense at all to ignore their views and just not discuss their existence until an election rolled around again.

Original poster
username8348 · 28/11/2024 08:59

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 28/11/2024 08:35

Exactly.

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I think my concern is slightly bigger in that the rights of the ECHR for example, right to a fair trial, freedom of assembly, freedom of expression and the fact that anyone can challenge the government if those rights are violated, concern the privileged as well.

You hear right wingers complaining about freedom of expression a lot. However Badenoch and co want to get rid off basic protections. You can guarantee that rights will be restricted should they rewrite them.

I can see Badenoch getting rid off many labour laws we currently take for granted because her focus seems to be about deregulation at the expense of everything else.

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Nordione1 · 28/11/2024 08:53

Zonder · 28/11/2024 08:49

Excellent point.

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Yes. The Red Wall of 2019 agree with you 100% on that one.

Zonder · 28/11/2024 08:49

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 28/11/2024 08:22

Typically, the Tories have privilege, so they assume that they don't need rights. More fool them.

Excellent point.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 28/11/2024 08:35

username8348 · 28/11/2024 08:30

I see what you mean. For example, getting rid off maternity pay is fine for those who can afford it.

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Exactly.

Original poster
username8348 · 28/11/2024 08:30

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 28/11/2024 08:22

Typically, the Tories have privilege, so they assume that they don't need rights. More fool them.

I see what you mean. For example, getting rid off maternity pay is fine for those who can afford it.

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MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 28/11/2024 08:22

Typically, the Tories have privilege, so they assume that they don't need rights. More fool them.

Nordione1 · 28/11/2024 08:12

Zonder · 28/11/2024 08:10

I'm glad you've posted this. We can't ignore the opposition party, any more than anyone ignored Labour and didn't take every opportunity to slag them off when they were in power.

She said that getting rid off the Human Rights Act and coming out of the ECHR was the least radical thing they would do.
Badenoch showing us who she is. No, I don't believe she's a fan of human rights.

I suppose Labour will be out within 4.5 years or sooner with any luck so it's wise you guys are already preparing for opposition again and discussing Conservative policies. Good on you.

Zonder · 28/11/2024 08:10

I'm glad you've posted this. We can't ignore the opposition party, any more than anyone ignored Labour and didn't take every opportunity to slag them off when they were in power.

She said that getting rid off the Human Rights Act and coming out of the ECHR was the least radical thing they would do.
Badenoch showing us who she is. No, I don't believe she's a fan of human rights.

Nordione1 · 28/11/2024 08:09

username8348 · 28/11/2024 08:04

How about I decide what to post about irrespective of your opinion.

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Go for it.

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