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Politics

Assisted Dying Bill

240 replies

1457bloom · 24/11/2024 18:15

According to the latest yougov poll, 73% of the general public are in favour of this bill. Why is it that I hear politicians are against it. They are elected to represent their constituents. yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50989-three-quarters-support-assisted-dying-law

OP posts:
1457bloom · 29/11/2024 16:54

user942557 · 29/11/2024 16:50

I can't believe this has happened.

I feel so fucking hopeless.

Brexit. This.

As a disabled woman I'm so frightened.

You have nothing to be worried about, this is about giving everyone choice.

OP posts:
1457bloom · 29/11/2024 16:53

@CurrentHun is this human rights organisation happy with the status quo and all the terrible suffering so many people experience at the end of their life against their will. At the end of the day you have to take this into consideration.

OP posts:
user942557 · 29/11/2024 16:50

I can't believe this has happened.

I feel so fucking hopeless.

Brexit. This.

As a disabled woman I'm so frightened.

ByMerryKoala · 29/11/2024 16:50

1457bloom · 29/11/2024 16:48

You still have the option of horrific end of life suffering, that hasn't changed.

Why do you think more women than men make assisted dying applications?

2weekwait · 29/11/2024 16:50

Fully support with the right safe guards in place. Watching a family member slowly die from MND, if I was diagnosed I would take matters into my own hands one way or another

1457bloom · 29/11/2024 16:48

ByMerryKoala · 29/11/2024 16:44

Callous disregard then?

You still have the option of horrific end of life suffering, that hasn't changed.

OP posts:
CurrentHun · 29/11/2024 16:47

1457bloom · 29/11/2024 16:26

@SquirrelSoShiny yes, we have the advantage of seeing how law has evolved in other countries to do everything we can to stop the same happening here. We will have the most strict regulations in the world. Remember this is to relieve people of suffering.

You can’t say the regulations here will be strictest in the world, we don’t have any agreement what they will be. That’s the worry. As for the published Bill, why is the very respected human rights law group Liberty, saying that the safeguards are insufficient? Their director, Akiko Hart, said:

‘Ultimately, the safeguards in this Bill are just not robust enough, and leave too many details to be decided later, particularly at a time when there is already great inequality in our healthcare system.

We know that the impact of these decisions often falls sharpest on disabled people and communities of colour, who are already less likely to receive good quality of care.”

Ms Hart said there are “too many details” which “have not gone through a process of scrutiny, and as a result are simply not precise enough”.

She said there is a danger of the Bill “evolving into something it was never intended to be”, warning of risks that some people in marginalised communities could feel pressured into an assisted death.

Ms Hart added: “It is clear to us that serious human rights concerns exist and are not being considered due to the rushed nature of this Bill.

“MPs must bear this in mind when they vote.
“If they find it wanting, they should oppose it.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/liberty-mps-commons-parliament-edward-leigh-b1195574.html

Liberty: Assisted dying Bill presents serious safeguarding risks

The debate and expected vote on November 29 will be the first on the controversial issue in the Commons in almost a decade.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/liberty-mps-commons-parliament-edward-leigh-b1195574.html

ByMerryKoala · 29/11/2024 16:44

Callous disregard then?

BIossomtoes · 29/11/2024 16:43

ByMerryKoala · 29/11/2024 16:35

Do you know that the bulk of assisted dying requests are made by women? Why do you think that might be @Blossomtoes?

I don’t know and I’m not going to get into an argument with anyone about it. I’m very pleased that I will hopefully have some choice over the circumstances of my death and not be forced to endure months of pain and indignity. It’s personal to me and if you want a ruck about it you’ll have to find someone else who disagrees with you. There are plenty to choose from.

ByMerryKoala · 29/11/2024 16:35

Do you know that the bulk of assisted dying requests are made by women? Why do you think that might be @Blossomtoes?

IMustDoMoreExercise · 29/11/2024 16:34

ByMerryKoala · 29/11/2024 16:26

I'm not sure if it's naive optimism or callous disregard that drives the willful ignorance of the cascade of shitty consequences that result from this vote but it's a dreadful decision.

Well, you are welcome to do what you want to do and now I am a step closer to doing what I want to do.

So we are both happy.

BIossomtoes · 29/11/2024 16:32

I’m very pleased. Giving people with capacity to make their own choices autonomy is absolutely the right thing.

ByMerryKoala · 29/11/2024 16:26

I'm not sure if it's naive optimism or callous disregard that drives the willful ignorance of the cascade of shitty consequences that result from this vote but it's a dreadful decision.

1457bloom · 29/11/2024 16:26

@SquirrelSoShiny yes, we have the advantage of seeing how law has evolved in other countries to do everything we can to stop the same happening here. We will have the most strict regulations in the world. Remember this is to relieve people of suffering.

OP posts:
SquirrelSoShiny · 29/11/2024 16:23

1457bloom · 29/11/2024 16:18

The bill provides the strictest safeguards of any country in the world

I'm quite sure Canada said the same when they introduced the absolute horror show that is MAID. I'm not opposed to the principle of an assisted death in a just and compassionate society BUT we don't live in a just and compassionate society.

IMustDoMoreExercise · 29/11/2024 16:21

ItWasnaMeGuv · 29/11/2024 15:52

I haven't read any replies, OP, but this Bill fills me with dread. And this is from someone who has Alzheimers in the family and have a real fear of getting it and putting myself and my family through the distress and agony of managing my decline. I would not want to live, but cannot support this Bill.

I am not reassured that this government in particular would put any safeguarding laws in place to protect vulnerable disabled or chronically sick people from being pressured into choosing death (cheap option) rather than expensive medical support. Looking at MAID in Canada gave me an insight into the grim reality with the example of a disabled veteran who, applying for funding to modify her home and install a ramp, was offered MAID. It is worth you having a look at how it works abroad, any way.

The Canadian example is one rogue example.

If one person is killed on the road, should the government ban driving? If not, why not?

1457bloom · 29/11/2024 16:18

AnnaFrith · 29/11/2024 15:24

This is horrifying. A first step towards a really dark change in our society.

The bill provides the strictest safeguards of any country in the world

OP posts:
1457bloom · 29/11/2024 16:17

Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/11/2024 16:03

I am not reassured that this government in particular would put any safeguarding laws in place to protect vulnerable disabled or chronically sick people from being pressured into choosing death (cheap option) rather than expensive medical support

I'm not confident it would make any real difference even if they did, @ItWasnaMeGuv
As we've seen too often "safeguarding" can be a mere platitude ripe for ignoring, and if we take the lack of consequences imposed when it fails and add the money to be saved here and some all too common attitudes to wards the elderly, sick and disabled, I'd say a Pandora's Box just got opened

Look at the bill in the context of the status quo and all the suffering so many people experience.

OP posts:
1457bloom · 29/11/2024 16:16

ItWasnaMeGuv · 29/11/2024 15:52

I haven't read any replies, OP, but this Bill fills me with dread. And this is from someone who has Alzheimers in the family and have a real fear of getting it and putting myself and my family through the distress and agony of managing my decline. I would not want to live, but cannot support this Bill.

I am not reassured that this government in particular would put any safeguarding laws in place to protect vulnerable disabled or chronically sick people from being pressured into choosing death (cheap option) rather than expensive medical support. Looking at MAID in Canada gave me an insight into the grim reality with the example of a disabled veteran who, applying for funding to modify her home and install a ramp, was offered MAID. It is worth you having a look at how it works abroad, any way.

People with dementia lack mental capacity and therefore do not have the option of assisted dying under the bill.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/11/2024 16:03

I am not reassured that this government in particular would put any safeguarding laws in place to protect vulnerable disabled or chronically sick people from being pressured into choosing death (cheap option) rather than expensive medical support

I'm not confident it would make any real difference even if they did, @ItWasnaMeGuv
As we've seen too often "safeguarding" can be a mere platitude ripe for ignoring, and if we take the lack of consequences imposed when it fails and add the money to be saved here and some all too common attitudes to wards the elderly, sick and disabled, I'd say a Pandora's Box just got opened

ItWasnaMeGuv · 29/11/2024 15:52

I haven't read any replies, OP, but this Bill fills me with dread. And this is from someone who has Alzheimers in the family and have a real fear of getting it and putting myself and my family through the distress and agony of managing my decline. I would not want to live, but cannot support this Bill.

I am not reassured that this government in particular would put any safeguarding laws in place to protect vulnerable disabled or chronically sick people from being pressured into choosing death (cheap option) rather than expensive medical support. Looking at MAID in Canada gave me an insight into the grim reality with the example of a disabled veteran who, applying for funding to modify her home and install a ramp, was offered MAID. It is worth you having a look at how it works abroad, any way.

CallOfTheRiled · 29/11/2024 15:34

To be fair, there may be more that I couldn’t see. But it’s certainly not ‘so many’ in comparison to the number of countries worldwide.

CallOfTheRiled · 29/11/2024 15:32

6 in Europe plus as far as I can see, some states in the US, plus Canada, Australia, Columbia. Ecuador. Out of 194 countries in the world.

AnnaFrith · 29/11/2024 15:24

This is horrifying. A first step towards a really dark change in our society.

CurrentHun · 29/11/2024 15:23

Barnaclegoose · 27/11/2024 13:41

I think my point is more: we don't have the sufficient either safeguards or oversight for systems we currently have in place (DNRs, Mental Capacity Act assessments, the commissioning to ensure people have access to safe, appropriate care and avoiding the postcode lottery). Firstly, if we cannot manage these systems currently, we should think very carefully about what this means for our ability to manage in practise the Assisted Dying law. Secondly, without those things in pace, we need to think about how that impacts on the Assisted Dying law -I.e. are people choosing to die because they don't have the appropriate care package to make life worthwhile? Even worse, do they only not have that care because of their socioeconomic status and where they live in the country?

In theory, I would love for people to have the right to Assisted Dying, from a free will, dignity, choice perspective. As things are at present, I cannot see how you could free it from collusion, undue influence and protect the vulnerable. If we had a better track record at protecting the vulnerable, my confidence in it would be much higher.

Absolutely agree. Not hopeful that the Bill committee can possibly provide answers to this