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Politics

Why do some people think Trump is a good man?

260 replies

Lyannaa · 16/11/2024 19:28

There are a lot of people, even in the UK who act like you have offended their mum or dad if you point out what an awful person he clearly is. Even his own family don't like him and plenty of people have said how his relationships with his own children are merely transactional.

If people like him, is it because they are fascists themselves deep down? Or is it some type of mass hysteria?

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deeperdrole · 29/11/2024 19:38

user44221 · 29/11/2024 18:35

Electoral college results aren't really generally referred to in 'landslide' terms. Because of the way they work, while they are determinative for winning an election, they aren't necessarily reflective of what we talk about when we talk about landslides.

In this case, while he won the election fair and square, he did it with a lower percentage of the popular vote than Hilary Clinton won it by in 2016, while still losing the election. Republicans would probably do well to remember that.

I guess whether you would call it a landslide would depend on whether or not you wanted Harris to win instead.

Trump was discredited by the media machine, and many us just jumped on the bandwagon until we realised just how much was being badly reported or taken out of context. I think taking everything into consideration his win was convincing. It would have been better if we had been able to rely on media reporting.

user44221 · 29/11/2024 18:35

Electoral college results aren't really generally referred to in 'landslide' terms. Because of the way they work, while they are determinative for winning an election, they aren't necessarily reflective of what we talk about when we talk about landslides.

In this case, while he won the election fair and square, he did it with a lower percentage of the popular vote than Hilary Clinton won it by in 2016, while still losing the election. Republicans would probably do well to remember that.

deeperdrole · 29/11/2024 15:39

WildCats24 · 29/11/2024 15:29

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-ELECTION/RESULTS/zjpqnemxwvx/

Great. I’ll explain how the electoral college works. The person who gets the majority of the votes in each states takes the entire state’s electoral votes (apart from two states). For example, Kamala won all 19 of Illinois’ electoral votes, because she had 3,038,725 votes in Illinois and Donald had 2,441,039. Kennedy had 79,834 votes in Illinois. Yes, Kamala took all 19 electoral points, but does that mean that all 5,559,598 people in Illinois voted for her? No. 3,038,725 people in Illinois voted for her. 2,520,873 people in Illinois voted against Kamala. I would not say that even though Kamala won Illinois, that everyone in Illinois wanted her to be president. 2.5 million people disagreed.

Across the entire country, 77,095,526 (49.9%) people voted for Donald. 74,659,711 (48.3%) voted for Kamala. Donald had 1.6% more votes than Kamala. Not a landslide.

If you look at the electoral college results - landslide
If you look at raw votes - more narrow victory
But it is the electoral college results which are the relevant ones

Quote from even the BBC:
"And [ec] is the number that really matters. The US election is really 50 state-by-state races rather than a single national one.
The winner in any given state wins all of its electoral votes - for example, 19 in swing state Pennsylvania. Both candidates hoped to reach the magic number of 270 electoral votes to earn a majority in the college.
Trump’s 312 is better than Joe Biden's 306 and beats both Republican wins by George W Bush. But it is well shy of the 365 achieved by Barack Obama in 2008 or the 332 Obama won getting re-elected, or the colossal 525 by Ronald Reagan in 1984"

Thanks for your explanation of ec as requested though.

WildCats24 · 29/11/2024 15:29

deeperdrole · 29/11/2024 15:17

Do I understand how many votes Trump needed and how many he got and how many Harris got? Yes

If you think I got something wrong (I didn't) then please say, give a full explanation and link sources.

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-ELECTION/RESULTS/zjpqnemxwvx/

Great. I’ll explain how the electoral college works. The person who gets the majority of the votes in each states takes the entire state’s electoral votes (apart from two states). For example, Kamala won all 19 of Illinois’ electoral votes, because she had 3,038,725 votes in Illinois and Donald had 2,441,039. Kennedy had 79,834 votes in Illinois. Yes, Kamala took all 19 electoral points, but does that mean that all 5,559,598 people in Illinois voted for her? No. 3,038,725 people in Illinois voted for her. 2,520,873 people in Illinois voted against Kamala. I would not say that even though Kamala won Illinois, that everyone in Illinois wanted her to be president. 2.5 million people disagreed.

Across the entire country, 77,095,526 (49.9%) people voted for Donald. 74,659,711 (48.3%) voted for Kamala. Donald had 1.6% more votes than Kamala. Not a landslide.

deeperdrole · 29/11/2024 15:17

WildCats24 · 29/11/2024 15:12

Do you understand how the electoral college works?

Do I understand how many votes Trump needed and how many he got and how many Harris got? Yes

If you think I got something wrong (I didn't) then please say, give a full explanation and link sources.

deeperdrole · 29/11/2024 15:15

Usinlimbo · 24/11/2024 18:39

I live in the US in a blue state. I'm british, just back here on holiday. I hated trump until around a year ago, when due to various things I realized like many Americans that most of msm has lied about him.

He is a family man, businessman, and successful enough that he doesn't need bribes to get in office. The democrats are truly awful. They have taken all family values down, stripped away many protections for us citizens while creating sanctuary cities to boost voter numbers. These sanctuary cities have cost billions and made life dirty and dangerous.

Most Democrat politicians seem to become enormously wealthy on modest salaries.

Trump raised /donated millions to those in crisis, has always supported black organizations quietly, without 'trumpeting' about it, and is promising amazing things for America.

Health reform with removal of additives in our food, prosecution and radical punishment for child molesters and human traffickers, deportation of criminals and illegals, going after corruption in the sec and other trading crimes, making life more affordable with no tax on ss for seniors or overtime, cutting down waste and beurocracy (40B on internet with not a single connection) etc etc.

Also he is not a war monger. If even a few of these things are improved I will be happy.

Remember he had 90% negative press while dems had 70% positive.

He won because he has an answer for everything while kamala couldn't give a coherent answer for almost anything and the few things she did promise were going to cost Americans a lot of money; the last straw for many.

I know msm misled the Public and lied so much that no one can believe he won but his was a grassroots campaign that only cost 300m because he didn't pay for supporters and most of his successful adverts were just reposting the democrats promises (they were that awful). She, on the other hand, blew $1.1B, bussing supporters from city to city, on billboards and celebrity endorsements (10m to Beyonce?) and her promises were awful.

Liken it to the petition for a general election to replace starmer which has amassed 1.2m signatures in 24 hours. People hate the democrats for what they have done over the last 4 years. The unhappiness with the democrats forced people like me to realise that trumps way is better.

Once you see past the msm lies and that his way is better, you are then more likely to see proof of all the positive things he has done, and wow, they are legion.

The lawfare against him was also ridiculous. I'm sure he was a little misogynistic and not the most respectful young man but that goes for 70 to 80 % of men. The rape charges against him were laughable (e jean). He is probably not the most virile man in the world now at age 78 and won't be skirt chasing. He has a focus to make everything better for his legacy. He's not going to seek reelection so is more driven to make a mark.

He is also probably our best hope of stopping ww3. Surely you want to live without threat of being nuked?

I am going to quote this excellent long post so that people can read it again.

WildCats24 · 29/11/2024 15:12

deeperdrole · 29/11/2024 15:08

He won 312 compared to Harris' 226 so that means he won 58 percent. He needed 270 to win but won 312.

I would say a very convincing victory, and landslide victory.

Do you understand how the electoral college works?

deeperdrole · 29/11/2024 15:08

WildCats24 · 25/11/2024 16:33

Really? Donald’s 49.9% to Kamala’s 48.3% (source: BBC news) is a “landslide”?

He won 312 compared to Harris' 226 so that means he won 58 percent. He needed 270 to win but won 312.

I would say a very convincing victory, and landslide victory.

Lyannaa · 27/11/2024 10:16

Entertaining does not equal good. I've learned that to my cost over the years.

OP posts:
Howandwhy · 27/11/2024 03:04

It's because he's entertaining, especially if you don't live in America. I've burned so many dinners by being caught up watching his random outbursts on the news during his previous presidency lool.

user44221 · 27/11/2024 02:51

RingoJuice · 25/11/2024 16:40

I understand the civil war very well (I'm American). Do you not believe there's a difference between teaching history and statues, which venerate? I'd think some Americans, particularly those descended from slaves, would find the veneration of Robert E Lee in their town squares, etc. quite distressing

Some of our founding fathers owned slaves. Are we gonna start tearing down their statues too?

I don’t think leftists will ever stop trying to deconstruct our country and destroying our heroes. I won’t play their silly little games. Today it’s Robert E Lee, tomorrow it’s gonna be George Washington.

The founding fathers certainly have a very complicated legacy when it comes to that (my husband is actually descended from one) and I would hope that's taught in all its fullness in schools.

They are however, different, from a general whose main legacy is literally that fought for the right to keep black people enslaved. His efforts at reuniting the country after the war bring some complexity to the discussion around him and should also be taught.

I do find statues honouring him problematic. I guess you see that as a 'silly game' by a 'leftist'. i.e. someone who can empathise with those who feel racism is gross.

RingoJuice · 25/11/2024 16:54

WildCats24 · 25/11/2024 16:36

This

no they weren’t. There was a big debate over whether the southern states had the right to secede a voluntary union since the Constitution never addressed the matter.

Ultimately the question was decided on the battlefield. But they could never have tried them for treason—the Supreme Court could well have decided they had the right to leave.

WildCats24 · 25/11/2024 16:41

Usinlimbo · 25/11/2024 14:40

Cities being ruined, groceries and rents have gone up massively, fuel was super high for a couple many of years, only being lowered recently by biden to get votes, people too poor to take advantage of the stock market, massive corruption in the stock market and those in positions of influence making millions, bad health, housing shortage, pedophiles and traffickers being supported and funded with govt money. There's more but I don't have time.

Paedophile traffickers are shitty people…true.

Why do some people think Trump is a good man?
Why do some people think Trump is a good man?
Why do some people think Trump is a good man?
RingoJuice · 25/11/2024 16:40

I understand the civil war very well (I'm American). Do you not believe there's a difference between teaching history and statues, which venerate? I'd think some Americans, particularly those descended from slaves, would find the veneration of Robert E Lee in their town squares, etc. quite distressing

Some of our founding fathers owned slaves. Are we gonna start tearing down their statues too?

I don’t think leftists will ever stop trying to deconstruct our country and destroying our heroes. I won’t play their silly little games. Today it’s Robert E Lee, tomorrow it’s gonna be George Washington.

WildCats24 · 25/11/2024 16:36

BettyBardMacDonald · 25/11/2024 09:02

Robert E Lee was a traitor waging war against the US government.

This

WildCats24 · 25/11/2024 16:33

username358 · 16/11/2024 19:45

He's just won a landslide. Not bad for someone 'thick as mince'.

Really? Donald’s 49.9% to Kamala’s 48.3% (source: BBC news) is a “landslide”?

user44221 · 25/11/2024 16:25

Usinlimbo · 25/11/2024 14:40

Cities being ruined, groceries and rents have gone up massively, fuel was super high for a couple many of years, only being lowered recently by biden to get votes, people too poor to take advantage of the stock market, massive corruption in the stock market and those in positions of influence making millions, bad health, housing shortage, pedophiles and traffickers being supported and funded with govt money. There's more but I don't have time.

I think you have your answer right here @Lyannaa.

A barrage of fact-free right wing talking points outweighs everything else for a lot of voters.

@Usinlimbo

Just to take on one point, there is a lot of information out there (some by the oil and gas industry) about how much control presidents do and don't have over gas prices.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/verify/president-does-not-control-gas-prices-in-the-united-states-verify/95-a09cc41d-f244-43d1-9481-a9f738908f2e

And could you please give me a specific example of 'corruption in the stock market and those in positions of influence making millions' under Biden that was due to his administration?

@RingoJuice

I understand the civil war very well (I'm American). Do you not believe there's a difference between teaching history and statues, which venerate? I'd think some Americans, particularly those descended from slaves, would find the veneration of Robert E Lee in their town squares, etc. quite distressing.

Usinlimbo · 25/11/2024 14:40

BettyBardMacDonald · 25/11/2024 09:07

Can you elaborate on the "mess"?

Because from what I read their economy is strong, job growth is huge, crime very much down, moves to address environmental issues gaining strides, stock market at record highs.

Cities being ruined, groceries and rents have gone up massively, fuel was super high for a couple many of years, only being lowered recently by biden to get votes, people too poor to take advantage of the stock market, massive corruption in the stock market and those in positions of influence making millions, bad health, housing shortage, pedophiles and traffickers being supported and funded with govt money. There's more but I don't have time.

RingoJuice · 25/11/2024 09:29

SallyWD · 25/11/2024 09:23

He said there were very fine people on both sides.
So America and others bomb Iraq, killing tens of thousands of people, destroying homes, displacing people over the completely false premise that Iraq had weopens of mass destruction - then they refuse asylum to people fleeing the hell on earth that they've created. You may think this is wonderful, I do not.
You say you don't feel a need to defend Trump yet I've dozens of posts from you on multiple threads doing just that.

I don’t think we should take refugees from a war we’ve caused. Too much bad blood, they’ve every right to hate us. Plenty of other countries that can host them until things stabilize.

(fwiw I think GWB is literally the worst president in my lifetime. But I don’t think this obligates us to take refugees from countries that by all rights should hate us).

RingoJuice · 25/11/2024 09:25

People who turn out in the 2000s to defend these statues being up in modern cities do so because they are racists and it's become a racist symbolic cause

Why should our history be torn down? I’m not even a southerner and I have several male ancestors who participated in the war on the Union side. Yet I don’t think Robert E Lee statues should be torn down. It’s part of our history and as such should be respected and understood in context.

SallyWD · 25/11/2024 09:23

RingoJuice · 25/11/2024 09:16

You literally said he called white supremacists ‘very fine people’ and he did not.

And it doesn’t matter who calls it a ‘Muslim ban’ when it leaves out the majority of the Muslim world? It’s just false. Seven out of what, 30+ countries?

You might ban refugees from certain countries when those refugees come from places where ISIS and other terror groups have taken root.

And yeah Amnesty is biased. They are activists and are coming from that angle. So I would not be sure of an unbiased assessment from them tbh.

He said there were very fine people on both sides.
So America and others bomb Iraq, killing tens of thousands of people, destroying homes, displacing people over the completely false premise that Iraq had weopens of mass destruction - then they refuse asylum to people fleeing the hell on earth that they've created. You may think this is wonderful, I do not.
You say you don't feel a need to defend Trump yet I've dozens of posts from you on multiple threads doing just that.

RingoJuice · 25/11/2024 09:19

BettyBardMacDonald · 25/11/2024 09:02

Robert E Lee was a traitor waging war against the US government.

As I said, if you cannot properly understand the American Civil War then please refrain from commenting on American politics.

RingoJuice · 25/11/2024 09:16

SallyWD · 25/11/2024 08:54

You say "He said nothing of the sort" then include a link that shows I'm bold type that he said there were some very fine people in both sides. I already knew what he said in what context as I watched the interview at the time.

You say it's ridiculous to say there was a Muslim Ban, Trump's own aids called it a Muslim ban. It wasn't only refugees that were banned but all nationals from certain countries. What sort of person bans refugees anyway? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_travel_ban

Yes, pesky old Amnesty International, defending people's human rights.

You carry on defending Trump but many of us see him for what he is.

You literally said he called white supremacists ‘very fine people’ and he did not.

And it doesn’t matter who calls it a ‘Muslim ban’ when it leaves out the majority of the Muslim world? It’s just false. Seven out of what, 30+ countries?

You might ban refugees from certain countries when those refugees come from places where ISIS and other terror groups have taken root.

And yeah Amnesty is biased. They are activists and are coming from that angle. So I would not be sure of an unbiased assessment from them tbh.

BettyBardMacDonald · 25/11/2024 09:07

Notaflippinclue · 24/11/2024 23:14

78 million people voted for Trump - the Democrats have made a feckin mess over the last 4 years so looking at Team Trump now I would think those 78 million are grinning all over their faces - and jolly good luck to em, what happens in the US usually trickles over here and I can't bloody wait

Can you elaborate on the "mess"?

Because from what I read their economy is strong, job growth is huge, crime very much down, moves to address environmental issues gaining strides, stock market at record highs.

PermanentTemporary · 25/11/2024 09:05

I didnt say anything against Lee's military record. Yes Lee was an excellent general for the Confederate cause and deserves his place in history and museums, just like Colston in Bristol who was a big donor to his city. People who turn out in the 2000s to defend these statues being up in modern cities do so because they are racists and it's become a racist symbolic cause.

I think stick to saying you don't care at all about the character or public words of a President, however bad they are, only about policies. I'll continue to disagree with you that it doesn't matter what leaders say.

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