Page 7 | Why America voted for Trump, a simple, sane summary

Bippy2024 · 2024-11-08T10:30:28+00:00

This is why Trump won so resoundingly - this is why 72 million Americans voted for him - in one of his voter's own words. If you choose to monster and slur 72 million people, that's saying a lot about you. Every accusation is a confession. "I know a lot of people who voted for Trump. Let me tell you their reasons. They wanted a return to normalcy. Gender ideology is just too out there. They want to protect women and children. The economy has been disastrous for them. They didn’t have a cushion to absorb the inflation. They are cutting out everything in their lives just to afford food. And some are cutting that out. Their lives have gotten very small. When they tried to tell you, they were told they shouldn’t splurge on things like a frozen pizza. They see people coming illegally into this country and being handed stuff. Their stuff. Their money is being handed over. They have nothing. They watch as others are just handed more than they have. They can’t afford rent and don’t know what to do. More people fighting for the same housing units makes prices rise. They see a frightening turn towards censorship. They value the first amendment. Remember, it’s very important. They are so tired of being lied to and called terrible names. Every time the mainstream media made up a story to make people hysterical they rolled their eyes. This pushed more and more people away. They stopped having any faith in the media. A firing squad? Really? They feel the hysteria is toxic and frightening. Again they want this all to calm down. They watch as political protests are punished for only one side. They see crime running rampant. They see the people who try to protect us from crime being punished. The criminals go free to re-offend. Essentially, they want their children to be healthy, they want their family to be fed, they don’t want endless war, they want things to be fair, they want the bad guys punished and the good guys appreciated, they want to protect women and children. I hope if you are frightened today you will hear me. I hope I can help you see that things are not dire. I hope I can help you see that these were regular everyday folks who want regular everyday things. Food, clothing, shelter, privacy, respect for boundaries. That’s it. Just those things. Peace." [[https://x.com/babybeginner/status/1854179213399502850 https://x.com/babybeginner/status/1854179213399502850]]

Original poster

Bippy2024 · 10/11/2024 05:28

Walkden · 10/11/2024 04:30

In many ways, people do not consider, or at least discount external factors, when voting for governments etc.

End of WW2 Labour voted in a landslide despite Churchill's popularity be ause they wanted change.

Brexit. Disillusionment with zero hours low pay lack of economic uncertainty. A lot of it due to austerity policies and trickle down economic policy. Predictable result of increased immigration and reduced economic growth leading to higher taxes. Ironic emphasis from all parties of unleashing economic growth ....

US ultimately the economy and cost of living. Trump has his mandate just like bozo did. Let's see if he manages to deliver better than bj did for us.

For America's sake, I hope they all settle down, accept the democratically elected president and try to fashion a better society together, and I hope he does deliver. Only time will tell.

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Original poster

Bippy2024 · 10/11/2024 05:27

Aria999 · 10/11/2024 05:05

(FWIW I largely agree with your actual point though I think there's more complexity to why the democrats lost).

What complexity? I think it's actually very much simpler than everyone wants to believe, as most things are. I think the woman who tweeted the statement above was telling the absolute truth, as she sees it.

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Original poster

Bippy2024 · 10/11/2024 05:26

Aria999 · 10/11/2024 05:02

OP you complain about others being uncivil but you are pretty sneery yourself,

The 'busy busy too busy to talk to people I think are making stupid comments' attitude is especially grating.

Start a discussion or don't. Continue it or don't. But try to stop making out that you're more important/ more intelligent than everyone else, it's annoying.

Nope, nonsense.

But you already know that ;)

Busy, must fly, ciao!

PS, your right to free speech doesn't in any way, shape or form include the right to police mine 😅 But you keep trying to derail - as you'll do whatever you like anyway, just as I shall :)

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Aria999 · 10/11/2024 05:05

(FWIW I largely agree with your actual point though I think there's more complexity to why the democrats lost).

Aria999 · 10/11/2024 05:02

OP you complain about others being uncivil but you are pretty sneery yourself,

The 'busy busy too busy to talk to people I think are making stupid comments' attitude is especially grating.

Start a discussion or don't. Continue it or don't. But try to stop making out that you're more important/ more intelligent than everyone else, it's annoying.

Walkden · 10/11/2024 04:30

In many ways, people do not consider, or at least discount external factors, when voting for governments etc.

End of WW2 Labour voted in a landslide despite Churchill's popularity be ause they wanted change.

Brexit. Disillusionment with zero hours low pay lack of economic uncertainty. A lot of it due to austerity policies and trickle down economic policy. Predictable result of increased immigration and reduced economic growth leading to higher taxes. Ironic emphasis from all parties of unleashing economic growth ....

US ultimately the economy and cost of living. Trump has his mandate just like bozo did. Let's see if he manages to deliver better than bj did for us.

Original poster

Bippy2024 · 10/11/2024 01:38

mollyfolk · 10/11/2024 01:12

The economy is the US is actually doing fine - there is no crash. It's the high cost of living. However inflation has already dropped with wages increasing more than costs.

Unfortunately the average American won't be feeling that positive impact yet ... by the time they start feeling a tangible benefit from the current inflation/wages situation they'll think it was trump that did it!

Show quote history

The price of groceries increased more than 20% during President Joe Biden’s first three years in office and exceeded wage growth. The Consumer Price Index for “food at home” rose from 252.7 on Jan. 1, 2021, to 305 in December 2023 — an increase of 20.7%.

During the first three years of President Donald Trump’s administration, the grocery index rose from 237 in January 2017 to 243 in December 2019 — an increase of 2.5%.

From January 2021 to early 2024, average rents rose by approximately 21.6%.

https://www.bls.gov/cpi/tables/home.htm

https://truthout.org/articles/rent-increases-are-driving-inflation-and-pessimism-about-economy-under-biden/

There may be complicated reasons, I'm sure there are. But whatever the reasons, people can't afford to fill trolleys or pay rent any more, and they are scared.

Telling them, as the Dems kept doing, to shut up about it and buy less take away coffee and stop being a racist bigot, helped nobody.

A For Rent sign stands in front of a house in Chicago, Illinois.

Rent Increases Are Driving Inflation — and Pessimism About Economy Under Biden

Democrats say the economy is great, but millions of tenants are struggling to pay historic rent increases.

https://truthout.org/articles/rent-increases-are-driving-inflation-and-pessimism-about-economy-under-biden

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AliasGrace47 · 10/11/2024 01:29

The Dems aren't much safer w their lying about Biden's dementia for heaven knows how long. But still not Trump levels of danger.

AliasGrace47 · 10/11/2024 01:27

potoftea, hmm.. well, I think we should def understand that plenty of US people felt unhappy about Trump's obvious faults, but were worried about gender ideology & the other crap the Democrats were promoting. But it doesn't mean we can't judge them as wrong & short sighted. His actions on Jan 6 prove he is dangerous. He encouraged the violent overthrow of the state. How is that safe?
Far right parties are in power in Hungary & until recently Poland. I can understand why, but still judge. If younger people had been able to vote in earlier years, Corbyn might have won. I'd still be happy to say they were wrong.

mollyfolk · 10/11/2024 01:12

caringcarer · 10/11/2024 00:21

When Trump was in the last time the economy was doing well until COVID. During Biden's reign the economy has crashed, inflation and prices are so high and Harris was right there with Biden. When asked on a TV show what she would have changed if she'd been the president instead of Biden she replied absolutely nothing as though everything was fine. People want the economy back on track. They want a better life for their DC.

The economy is the US is actually doing fine - there is no crash. It's the high cost of living. However inflation has already dropped with wages increasing more than costs.

Unfortunately the average American won't be feeling that positive impact yet ... by the time they start feeling a tangible benefit from the current inflation/wages situation they'll think it was trump that did it!

Original poster

Bippy2024 · 10/11/2024 01:12

izimbra · 09/11/2024 23:57

"There is a huge lesson to be learned from Trump's massive victory - calling people racists/xenophobes/hateful/phobic/bigots doesn't work. It will lose you votes not win them."

The 'huge lesson to be learned' is that sometimes holiding to deeply held moral principles is politically unpopular.

It's ok to call people racists bigots and xenophobes if they are racist bigots and xenophobes.

Trump's campaign was absolutely fuelled by xenophobic demagoguery - if you can't acknowlege this it's because you're disengaged from reality.

Democrat voters can NEVER support this - it's antithetical to their basic human values.

I don't want to win anyone over if winning them over means I have to be ok with disgusting xenophobic rhetoric and beliefs.

Oh - and nobody here is 'screaming at you'. They're criticising your values and your opinions, and they're perfectly entitled to do so.

Except I said "stop screaming at people". Not "stop screaming at me" I don't allow people to re interpret my words to suit their agenda. It's interesting you assumed you were included in that too.

And except that you literally have no idea - none whatsoever - which if any of the 73 million US citizens who voted Trump and the 17.5 million of your fellow citizens who voted Brexit were your "insert slur".

If you actually think all of them are (your choice of slur) that doesn't augur well for your reasoning skills.

And if you think only some of them are, then slurring all of them is counterproductive, unrealistic and disingenuous.

You're either unable to comprehend these facts, or are unwilling to. Your comments are lazy, bigoted, opinion based and offer nothing new.

Wait, did you read that properly? I said your COMMENTS are those things - which they are. I did not say YOU are those things, as I don't know you from a bar of soap.

The reasons people voted Trump are the reasons in my original post. I get that you hate that - that's unfortunate for you.

You're determined to have the last word, though you've mainly offered name calling and doubling down. But the USA has had the last word on this matter, so that's that.

That's ok, you won't change, and that doesn't matter. Busy busy, must fly.

I'll be ignoring your repetitive posts from now on, so if I get back to the thread I won't respond to you again, because you refuse to engage in good faith, have learned nothing and refuse to even try.

And for no other reason, no matter what your interpretation or beliefs in the matter are :)

We won't talk again, I give you the last word. Good bye and good luck.

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friendlycat · 10/11/2024 00:51

izimbra · 10/11/2024 00:40

Inflation has been high across all developed economies since the pandemic.

Biden bought inflation down further and faster than governments in the Eurozone.

Trump has no coherent economic plans. At all.

Economists don't support your view that Biden's economy is a disaster or that Trump can fix it.

The interview question re: what would you have done differently would have f*cked her whatever she had said. If she's said anything that sounded critical of Biden that would have been repeatedly used against her as a member of that administration taking responsibility for and admitting failure.

I totally agree. But she still didn’t handle the question well. She could and should have been prepared and proactive with a positive answer for the future. She needed to distance herself from the past (though almost impossible to do) and present a future of hope, confidence and change.

That’s exactly what Trump did. He gave hope and confidence and a better future. Albeit a load of baloney but that’s what matters in elections. Aim high.

izimbra · 10/11/2024 00:42

"When Trump was in the last time the economy was doing well until COVID"

Trump's economy before COVID was following the trajectory created by Obama.

izimbra · 10/11/2024 00:40

Inflation has been high across all developed economies since the pandemic.

Biden bought inflation down further and faster than governments in the Eurozone.

Trump has no coherent economic plans. At all.

Economists don't support your view that Biden's economy is a disaster or that Trump can fix it.

The interview question re: what would you have done differently would have f*cked her whatever she had said. If she's said anything that sounded critical of Biden that would have been repeatedly used against her as a member of that administration taking responsibility for and admitting failure.

friendlycat · 10/11/2024 00:29

caringcarer · 10/11/2024 00:21

When Trump was in the last time the economy was doing well until COVID. During Biden's reign the economy has crashed, inflation and prices are so high and Harris was right there with Biden. When asked on a TV show what she would have changed if she'd been the president instead of Biden she replied absolutely nothing as though everything was fine. People want the economy back on track. They want a better life for their DC.

I saw that interview that Harris did and frankly it was jaw dropping when she was asked what she would have done differently. Who in their right mind would have chosen to comment as she did. But that’s what she did.

caringcarer · 10/11/2024 00:21

When Trump was in the last time the economy was doing well until COVID. During Biden's reign the economy has crashed, inflation and prices are so high and Harris was right there with Biden. When asked on a TV show what she would have changed if she'd been the president instead of Biden she replied absolutely nothing as though everything was fine. People want the economy back on track. They want a better life for their DC.

izimbra · 09/11/2024 23:57

"There is a huge lesson to be learned from Trump's massive victory - calling people racists/xenophobes/hateful/phobic/bigots doesn't work. It will lose you votes not win them."

The 'huge lesson to be learned' is that sometimes holiding to deeply held moral principles is politically unpopular.

It's ok to call people racists bigots and xenophobes if they are racist bigots and xenophobes.

Trump's campaign was absolutely fuelled by xenophobic demagoguery - if you can't acknowlege this it's because you're disengaged from reality.

Democrat voters can NEVER support this - it's antithetical to their basic human values.

I don't want to win anyone over if winning them over means I have to be ok with disgusting xenophobic rhetoric and beliefs.

Oh - and nobody here is 'screaming at you'. They're criticising your values and your opinions, and they're perfectly entitled to do so.

Original poster

Bippy2024 · 09/11/2024 23:47

I'm not going to keep checking in, it's time consuming, I might get back here in a day or two.

But I really appreciate the reasonable comments and those who haven't tried to put words in my mouth or make claims that I've made statements I haven't made.

There is a huge lesson to be learned from Trump's massive victory - calling people racists/xenophobes/hateful/phobic/bigots doesn't work. It will lose you votes not win them.

Stop screaming at people, if you want to change their minds. Of course that goes for both sides - but if you are the ones who are losing (as the left clearly were in the USA) and you resort to calling more than half your citizens garbage, as Joe Biden did, or having flaming melt downs on Tik Tok and Twitter, crying and screaming RACIST PHOBIC BIGOTS NAZIS at people who disagree with you - you're the one behaving like a racist, phobic, bigot and a Nazi.

These tactics don't win minds or votes. And no, 73 million Americans are not homicidal lunatics or (your choice of slur goes here) they just don't agree with you. Learn why they voted as they did, and we can make our way to back to Agree to Disagree - the foundation of a stable society.

And before you start shrieking BUT YOU CAN'T AGREE TO DISAGREE ON MY HUMAN RIGHTS read the statement I posted again. She was worried about her human rights. That's why she voted Trump.

If you cannot manage to stop shouting abuse at people who disagree with you, you will live and die a miserable existence, without changing a single mind.

That's up to you, entirely.

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izimbra · 09/11/2024 23:35

"I disagree entirely, I think it's horrifying to accuse 17.5 million of your fellow citizens of being xenophobic based on nothing but your own perception and the fact that they disagree with you."

Except I didn't.

I based it on the findings from social research.

You can continue not to learn - which is what you've demonstrated right here. You read what I said and decided not to look at the evidence I linked to I also didn't accuse 17 million people of being xenophobic. I said the Brexit vote was 'driven by xenophobia' - which signifies I think it was a significant factor, and evidence suggests I'm correct.

There's also evidence from social research that the Brexit campaign and vote led to an upsurge in hate crime and discrimination against EU nationals living in the UK.

Original poster

Bippy2024 · 09/11/2024 23:29

Dweebie · 09/11/2024 23:07

It is false to say that the left and centre left is so pro immigration or woke that you couldn’t vote for them. Trans issues and immigration issues and the like are insanely complex and nuanced. No one can or should have a screaming easy slogan solution. Trump tells you there’s an easy answer because he just wants to win and he doesn’t really care. I speak as someone who voted for Brexit so I’m not on my high horse because I know how easy it is to be taken in , but he is peddling lies. Just because someone on the left refuses to take some clear line on immigrants or trans issues doesn’t mean they’re a woke danger to your society, it means they are an adult and they are trying to treat other real human beings with compassion. Plus they know there’s no easy answers.

This doesn't actually address anything that he said specifically and you really don't know whether he cares or not (though like all politicians he is certainly motivated by self interest). I would ask you also to show specific lies rather than "he's just peddling lies" because that's precisely the sort of rhetoric that I addressed in my original post.

These are the reasons people voted for him (as I stated in the first post) if you think he won't perform in those areas, you're allowed to believe that of course, and it remains to be seen.

You also seem to be claiming that if a person disagrees with your stance, they lack compassion. You cannot possibly know that. Disagreement and a refusal to vote in the way another person wants you to does not equal hate or lack of compassion.

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Original poster

Bippy2024 · 09/11/2024 23:25

izimbra · 09/11/2024 23:19

But I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the leave vote was very significantly motivated by xenophobia. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/brexit-prejudice-scientists-link-foreigners-immigrants-racism-xenophobia-leave-eu-a8078586.html

And the insults go both ways. The main difference is that the concerns Remain voters had about the economic fallout of Brexit have largely been proved to be correct.

Show quote history

I disagree entirely, I think it's horrifying to accuse 17.5 million of your fellow citizens of being xenophobic based on nothing but your own perception and the fact that they disagree with you.

But you can continue not to learn, change or listen - that's your right. Entirely up to you.

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Original poster

Bippy2024 · 09/11/2024 23:21

ohdelay · 09/11/2024 12:41

I saw a Twitter thread on this
x.com/therestofus5/status/1854234747280777585?s=48&t=O-AdmTEwVSo6K31XKxOLCw
After four years of trolling women would probably have voted for a chimp shitting in its hands and clapping over the Democrats.

Yes, one of Trump's campaign promises was to remove teaching about gender ideology from schools and make women's sports single sex again. It's a bit odd that people haven't realised this was a big selling point.

They keep saying he's anti abortion too, but actually he's always said he believes abortion laws should be determined at the state level, rather than through federal mandates, and with Roe vs Wade overturned, that's precisely what has happened and will keep happening.

He's clearly stated he won't change the current situation with abortion. And he refused to give in to the far right who were demanding a nationwide ban, and this caused great controversy in his more right wing fan base.

"My view is now that we have abortion where everybody wanted it from a legal standpoint, the states will determine by vote or legislation, or perhaps both, and whatever they decide must be the law of the land."

s

So the abortion laws in each state will continue to be decided by the states as they currently are.

Those who said a vote for Trump was a vote against women's human rights seem to have misunderstood the situation.

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Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

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izimbra · 09/11/2024 23:20

CyclingAddict · 09/11/2024 22:49

The wall does exist! A quick look at Wikipedia confirms the details …

Not working very well is it?

izimbra · 09/11/2024 23:19

Bippy2024 · 09/11/2024 23:07

I can't recall much of what I read at the time because it was so, so long ago now. But I do remember anit Brexiters calling those who voted to leave all kinds of names with the favourite being rAcIsT fAsCiSt bIgOtS - which didn't work and has continued not to work as a way of winning hearts and minds.

Despite Brexit being democratically voted for almost 9 years ago, I unfortunately still see remainers aiming insults at those who voted to leave.

Show quote history

But I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the leave vote was very significantly motivated by xenophobia. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/brexit-prejudice-scientists-link-foreigners-immigrants-racism-xenophobia-leave-eu-a8078586.html

And the insults go both ways. The main difference is that the concerns Remain voters had about the economic fallout of Brexit have largely been proved to be correct.

Brexit is strongly linked to xenophobia, according to scientists

‘I think the Leave campaign gave a new, acceptable way to express xenophobia’

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/brexit-prejudice-scientists-link-foreigners-immigrants-racism-xenophobia-leave-eu-a8078586.html

Original poster

Bippy2024 · 09/11/2024 23:07

Bippy2024 · 09/11/2024 22:55

I don't agree. For the first time ever (and I do mean ever) I watched Joe Rogan - I absolutely can't bear Joe Rogan, he's so fond of the sound of his own voice and so smug, so I cannot sit through his podcasts.

But I did when he interviewed Trump, I sat through about 2 and a half hours of Trump, the most I have ever seen before of him talking was about 15 minutes.

He sounded perfectly sharp. He talked and talked and talked, and rambled on sure, he calls it the weave, he's always done that. He's a conceited man who likes the sound of his own voice and brings every story back to a compliment for himself.

I saw no signs at all of any cognitive decline, after 2.5 hours he was still going strong.

Show quote history

By which I mean I watched more than 1-2 minutes of Joe Rogan for the first time ever, and actually watched his show.

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