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Politics

CGT on assets Inc primary residence at death

141 replies

DotPotato · 22/09/2024 08:06

Morning all, here to find out some views on something I think should / could change in the budget.

At the moment there is a HUGE tax loophole whereby no CGT is paid on assets that you pass on at death. For example, you buy shares in 1950 and transfer ownership in your will, there is zero CGT paid on the capital increase you’ve made over 70 years. Same applies to property, even second homes. If you transfer ownership of the asset when you die, the inheritor receives the asset at the 2024 price but no CGT is due on the gain since it was bought by the deceased person.

This is just mad, especially as many assets will not qualify for inheritance tax, and there’s an exemption for passing on property of up to £1 million.

I think this should be closed in the budget. CGT should be payable by the estate on ANY asset that is transferred after death, including primary residence. After that, inheritance tax rules should be applied to what remains, potentially at a lower rate given that we are now applying GCT.

I think this would be a very fair way of taxing wealth that is 100% UNTAXED, because you’re not asking someone to pay tax on unrealised gains when they’re alive using income they might not have, and you’re not passing on freebies worth potentially hundreds of thousands of pounds to people who inherit just because they were lucky enough to be born to rich parents.

Interested in people’s thoughts and how un/popular it might be?

OP posts:
Withless · 22/09/2024 08:49

uncutdiamonds · 22/09/2024 08:48

Yes someone else should have to pay, the wealthy. All you have to do is raise income tax for additional rate. None of this crap, penalising people when they're grieving, taking away family homes

Agree totally.

uncutdiamonds · 22/09/2024 08:48

Yes someone else should have to pay, the wealthy. All you have to do is raise income tax for additional rate. None of this crap, penalising people when they're grieving, taking away family homes

Withless · 22/09/2024 08:48

New2thisshizzle · 22/09/2024 08:47

What have you done apart from decide people you don't know are rich enough to fund your lifestyle?

And this is why it’s not possible to have reasoned debate!

Not when my perfectly sensible suggestion is cited as being everything that's wrong with this country, no.

Withless · 22/09/2024 08:47

ItsAShame2 · 22/09/2024 08:46

Well - this is likely to include you in the untaxed wealth bit of your children will inherit well - so just donate what you think is fair to the government? That way your conscious is clear.

Yes, good plan.

New2thisshizzle · 22/09/2024 08:47

What have you done apart from decide people you don't know are rich enough to fund your lifestyle?

And this is why it’s not possible to have reasoned debate!

DotPotato · 22/09/2024 08:47

SoManyTshirts · 22/09/2024 08:41

Much of capital gains is due to inflation. Even my house value has only risen by inflation since I purchased it over a decade ago.

It doesn’t seem right to tax a notional gain in addition to inheritance tax. I do believe inheritance tax allowance should be much lower though.

So if that’s the case do you think there should be indexation on all other assets? Why is property different?

OP posts:
New2thisshizzle · 22/09/2024 08:46

I think there should be more tinkering with CGT as you say. IHT is very unpopular because many people feel they should be able to pay on their main residence at the very least although the threshold is already pretty high.

I don’t think we can tax income much more tbh.

ItsAShame2 · 22/09/2024 08:46

DotPotato · 22/09/2024 08:43

Agree on lottery and betting winnings.

My children will inherit well. No issues with this obv! But I do have an issue with untaxed wealth… that for me is what’s at the bottom of it all.

Well - this is likely to include you in the untaxed wealth bit of your children will inherit well - so just donate what you think is fair to the government? That way your conscious is clear.

Asleeponthejob · 22/09/2024 08:46

What about the scenario where a parent dies young and unexpectedly leaving children under 18 . How would you see that one playing out ?

twomanyfrogsinabox · 22/09/2024 08:45

I think it would have to be applied to all house sales to avoid people buying and selling frequently to avoid the final CGT or who just move a lot. What if the house isn't sold after the owners death?

You are already potentially paying 40% IHT and then another 20% CGT so 60% of the family home goes to the taxman, sounds really fair. How are people who chose to rent going to be equally chastised?

PandoraSox · 22/09/2024 08:45

DotPotato · 22/09/2024 08:41

Don’t you think we should be taxing wealth, particularly given we have a huge number of people who have enormous assets and low income?? Taxing at death gets around this.

Yes, I do. See my post about abolishing the CGT relief on main residences!

Withless · 22/09/2024 08:44

DotPotato · 22/09/2024 08:40

FFS. This is the problem with this country … everyone’s first reaction is me me me me me, but when public services go to pot it’s bad bad bad bad bad…. Must be fixed but someone else has to pay.

There are business reliefs on IHT for this reason.

Nope. Sorry, not having that. Dh and I have worked for 40 years, done all the right things, saved, pensions etc. Planned sensibly, lived within our means, driven old cars,.looked after ailing relatives ourselves, been good employers with loyal staff, run a business in the UK for 40 years - manufacturing which has been a shitting nightmare to keep going despite taking a tiny personal salary now.

What have you done apart from decide people you don't know are rich enough to fund your lifestyle?

ItsAShame2 · 22/09/2024 08:44

DotPotato · 22/09/2024 08:40

FFS. This is the problem with this country … everyone’s first reaction is me me me me me, but when public services go to pot it’s bad bad bad bad bad…. Must be fixed but someone else has to pay.

There are business reliefs on IHT for this reason.

Sorry this doesn’t make sense - it’s his business that he’s built why is that me me me?
poster suggested we all pay more tax
its your right to have socialist ideals but its others right not to

DotPotato · 22/09/2024 08:43

ItsAShame2 · 22/09/2024 08:41

”…….. and you’re not passing on freebies worth potentially hundreds of thousands of pounds to people who inherit just because they were lucky enough to be born to rich parents.”
I don’t get why in the uk people resent children getting inheritance.
if you really want to tax ‘lucky freebies’ - tax lottery winnings that’s the true lucky freebies

Agree on lottery and betting winnings.

My children will inherit well. No issues with this obv! But I do have an issue with untaxed wealth… that for me is what’s at the bottom of it all.

OP posts:
DotPotato · 22/09/2024 08:41

PandoraSox · 22/09/2024 08:39

Oh, can you imagine the outrage if they did this? It would be the sensible thing to do, though.

Don’t you think we should be taxing wealth, particularly given we have a huge number of people who have enormous assets and low income?? Taxing at death gets around this.

OP posts:
ItsAShame2 · 22/09/2024 08:41

”…….. and you’re not passing on freebies worth potentially hundreds of thousands of pounds to people who inherit just because they were lucky enough to be born to rich parents.”
I don’t get why in the uk people resent children getting inheritance.
if you really want to tax ‘lucky freebies’ - tax lottery winnings that’s the true lucky freebies

SoManyTshirts · 22/09/2024 08:41

Much of capital gains is due to inflation. Even my house value has only risen by inflation since I purchased it over a decade ago.

It doesn’t seem right to tax a notional gain in addition to inheritance tax. I do believe inheritance tax allowance should be much lower though.

DotPotato · 22/09/2024 08:40

Withless · 22/09/2024 08:36

Dh owns a business. He'd rather sell it than have to pay CGT and loads of tax on it if he passes it down.

Sick of this stupid government already. If they'd just put a penny on income tax all.of this arcane bollocks would have been avoided.

FFS. This is the problem with this country … everyone’s first reaction is me me me me me, but when public services go to pot it’s bad bad bad bad bad…. Must be fixed but someone else has to pay.

There are business reliefs on IHT for this reason.

OP posts:
Withless · 22/09/2024 08:40

It's the fairest thing to do. It would affect everyone working equally.

PandoraSox · 22/09/2024 08:39

Withless · 22/09/2024 08:36

Dh owns a business. He'd rather sell it than have to pay CGT and loads of tax on it if he passes it down.

Sick of this stupid government already. If they'd just put a penny on income tax all.of this arcane bollocks would have been avoided.

Oh, can you imagine the outrage if they did this? It would be the sensible thing to do, though.

candycane222 · 22/09/2024 08:38

Lowering the inheritance tax threshold (which seems a good idea to me) oight to achieve a lot of this? (I say this through gritted teeth as it is quite likely to affect me if it happens, but looking objectively I know it would be right)

Of course the richest people will work out ways to avoid either 🙄

DotPotato · 22/09/2024 08:38

KnittedCardi · 22/09/2024 08:29

How do you account for the improvements, changes, investment made in your home. For the loan repayments, the interest paid on those loans. For much of the homes life, it will have belonged to the bank, not the owner.

I assume you don't own your own house, or have children. There is a basic inherent human need to work, invest, provide for your family, including when you die.

IHT is already taking a higher percentage of estates than at any time since it's inception. General tax is already higher than ever before. You want more?? What for??

You assume wrong.

You can pass on up to £1million in property before IHT is applied as long as you’re in residence.

Also - “The average earner in the UK now has the lowest effective personal tax rate since 1975 — and one that is lower than in America, France, Germany or any G7 country.” see IFS. Tax burden is tax as a share of national income, not the amount you personally pay.

OP posts:
PandoraSox · 22/09/2024 08:37

TeenToTwenties · 22/09/2024 08:35

If you cgt on main properties then it needs to be on every move, not penalise people who have stayed put for 60 years.
However if you did it on every move then people would lose capital on a move and would not be able to upgrade.

But they would still have made a profit that would fund their upgrade?

Withless · 22/09/2024 08:36

Dh owns a business. He'd rather sell it than have to pay CGT and loads of tax on it if he passes it down.

Sick of this stupid government already. If they'd just put a penny on income tax all.of this arcane bollocks would have been avoided.

TeenToTwenties · 22/09/2024 08:35

If you cgt on main properties then it needs to be on every move, not penalise people who have stayed put for 60 years.
However if you did it on every move then people would lose capital on a move and would not be able to upgrade.