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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

OP posts:
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TiredWife · 14/08/2024 21:04

ZoeyBartlett · 14/08/2024 20:33

I can't believe all the people who think Kier Starmer has pulled strings/had sway. This is how the criminal justice system works after large civil disturbances. It was same in 2011. Sentences are as normal for taking part in a riot.

This blog sets out the realities behind the bollocks being spouted. thesecretbarrister.com/2024/08/14/two-tier-justice-cutting-through-the-online-myths/

This is an excellent explanation! Thanks for sharing!

OP posts:
pavillion1 · 14/08/2024 21:02

i think with happened in Leicester Square this week they were right to make a stand . We can not have Riots on any scale .
Saying that they need to tackle a huge problem occurring in the UK right now . I think everyone has just had enough.

Dorisbonson · 14/08/2024 21:01

Paul2023 · 14/08/2024 20:53

The people who rioted yes but a woman getting sent to jail for a comment on social media is excessive in my opinion.

Prisons are at capacity , and did you know it costs the tax payer about 40k a year to keep someone in custody?

Again , I think this particular woman didn’t deserve to go to prison.

I think we are heading for something quite worrying here.

My sister in law two years ago was assaulted by two men in front of her children and the police weren’t interested in doing anything.

And now the police are putting resources into looking for people who make social media comments. It doesn’t add up.

It's actually about 52,000 to keep a prisoner each year. More expensive than a boarding school pre VAT.

Dorisbonson · 14/08/2024 20:58

Kornvallmo · 14/08/2024 20:01

Let's agree to disagree.
I don't believe for a minute that people went on a rampage because of whatever they read online, that is not the cause.
If you teach and control right thinking rather than encourage critical thinking you create a population that is receptive to indoctrination. Wherever it might come from.

I think publishers and facilitators of information should be held accountable online to the same standards as offline media.

Plenty of online fraud on TikTok , Facebook and Instagram. They are multi billion dollar organisations. They publish fake adverts and scams and people lose out from the fraud they publish. They take revenue from it and aren't accountable (in some cases paying little tax here). Their business model needs to adjust they need to verify the information they provide on a platform to in the same way as a newspaper. They can do this by limiting sharing to friends or though pausing sharing of controversial viral content until it is verified - the same call a lawyer might make for a newspaper in the past.

If you want to disagree fine. I dont think its tricky for AI to flag viral content for verification early on for verification when the subject matter might be controversial. That's not a limit on free speech.

You can teach however much critical thinking you like but some very smart people have been defrauded and AI has already faked convincing videos of politicians. If you facilitate it through your business you should be accountable. We did it with newspapers, why not online media?

CaptainMyCaptain · 14/08/2024 20:55

AgnesX · 14/08/2024 18:04

Not remotely, serves them right. Hopefully it'll put the skids under some of the malicious shite spouted on social media and the other idiots that think participating in a riot is clever.

Edited

I agree. Seeing justice served so quickly has put a stop to it. Well done Keir Starmer!

Paul2023 · 14/08/2024 20:53

The people who rioted yes but a woman getting sent to jail for a comment on social media is excessive in my opinion.

Prisons are at capacity , and did you know it costs the tax payer about 40k a year to keep someone in custody?

Again , I think this particular woman didn’t deserve to go to prison.

I think we are heading for something quite worrying here.

My sister in law two years ago was assaulted by two men in front of her children and the police weren’t interested in doing anything.

And now the police are putting resources into looking for people who make social media comments. It doesn’t add up.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 14/08/2024 20:53

I wish they’d get this tough on lots of criminals. Hopefully it’s a sign of things to come. Get the machete wielding thugs off our streets next.

Missm68 · 14/08/2024 20:52

Serves them right!!!

peanutbuttertoasty · 14/08/2024 20:52

It’s persecution.

WouldYouLikeMeToSpellThatForYou · 14/08/2024 20:52

LiterallyOnFire · 14/08/2024 18:17

The message is, and should be, clear. If you act like a racist thuggish lout then there will be consequences. Looting, abusing people, damaging property, inciting violence and all the other delightful actions these 'protesters' took part in are not acceptable.

If only we could be just as harsh to sex offenders and violent misogynists.

It shows what is possible when there is a will to come down hard.

This
I'm torn, as a mixed ethnicity woman, I am happy to see these sentences and think they are right - but I despair inside because I know that they could do the same for sickening crimes such as VAWG, sexual abuse of children, rape etc. If they wanted to.

maverickfox · 14/08/2024 20:51

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 20:29

In which case I look forward to seeing the prison sentences coming down the line for all the online posters inciting hatred with their 'Kill the Terfs' messages at women's peaceful speaker events?

Yes, me too.

Mintyt · 14/08/2024 20:49

As soon as the sentencing started the trouble making rioting stopped. Remember it's violence stopped

stargirl1701 · 14/08/2024 20:48

No. Justice should be timely. These are simple cases seen by magistrates and, for the most part, the criminals are pleading guilty.

Sharp and swift. That'll put their gas at peep!

Namechangey23 · 14/08/2024 20:46

Ted27 · 14/08/2024 20:37

@Namechangey23

Why on earth would you think sentences would be quashed when the spotlight is off

I don't claim to understand the way the criminal justice system works..but I assume they can appeal it or have an opportunity for earlier release for good behaviour? I hope they don't by the way! Sure I've heard other criminals don't seem to serve their actual sentence?!

Bournetilly · 14/08/2024 20:45

They deserve the sentences they got, an example needs to be set.

Sentences for many other crimes should be longer.

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2024 20:40

see I don't agree, either that the message is clear, or that the behaviour won't be tolerated. There's a thread running on MN atm about absolutely blatant, constant, shoplifting with nothing being done about it, ever, staff not even reacting, police not even attending let alone bringing cases to court.

That might be locality dependent.

In my area we are always getting FB pictures - like the rioters - of people wanted in connection with shoplifting or arrested for shoplifting or charged and a sentence. They use cctv and catch these people and they are being sentenced. Locally anyway.

MilkyCappuchino · 14/08/2024 20:39

unfortunately no other way controlling a massive big population like this one

orangeblosssom · 14/08/2024 20:38

Hatty65 · 14/08/2024 18:05

Nope. Grateful that something serious has been done about racist thugs for once. No sympathy and I'm good with it.

Totally agree

Gingerkittykat · 14/08/2024 20:37

It worries me that the speed of the sentencing means all of the pre sentencing probation and mental health checks have not been done properly and people are getting the wrong sentences as a result.

Ted27 · 14/08/2024 20:37

@Namechangey23

Why on earth would you think sentences would be quashed when the spotlight is off

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2024 20:36

Bites them* dust
*
www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/lets-see-what-youve-cost-the-country-plymouth-judge-savagely-puts-rioter-in-his-place-381107/

Here it is.

Sorry about the delay my phone rang!

timenowplease · 14/08/2024 20:35

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 20:29

In which case I look forward to seeing the prison sentences coming down the line for all the online posters inciting hatred with their 'Kill the Terfs' messages at women's peaceful speaker events?

And also all the 'From the river to the sea' people. I saw no outrage on Mumsnet about that.

Two tier policing is a thing. No point pretending it's not.

ZoeyBartlett · 14/08/2024 20:33

I can't believe all the people who think Kier Starmer has pulled strings/had sway. This is how the criminal justice system works after large civil disturbances. It was same in 2011. Sentences are as normal for taking part in a riot.

This blog sets out the realities behind the bollocks being spouted. thesecretbarrister.com/2024/08/14/two-tier-justice-cutting-through-the-online-myths/

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2024 20:32

EmeraldRoulette · 14/08/2024 19:02

@Dorisbonson ”Whilst law and order needs to be maintained, it's hard to respect a government which rapidly mobilises police response for one type of crime but not another.”

rioting shuts down everything quite quickly. What would you have done to curb it?

Yes that was a big issue.

100's of police officers attending one crime (as such)

Nearly 100 injured and likely then off

100's had leave cancelled which will then need to be taken at a later date cause shortages another time.

I don't think people appreciate the big effect 1 riot has. Let alone many in a short space of time around the country.

It also took fire people and ambulances too which meant they couldn't be elsewhere.

Vergus · 14/08/2024 20:31

Population control and order is something that freaks the government out

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