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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

OP posts:
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ImikSiMik · 20/08/2024 15:13

@LesbianNana
My friend was at a work DEI meeting about putting support in place for those affected by the riots. The DEI consultant reframed the recent riots as racist & transphobic riots. Then went on about how the riots targeted large sections of the trans community.

I understand that there maybe some intersectionalities between ethnic minority and the trans communities. However, the media didn't present the recent riots as anything other than race related. So I wonder why the DEI consultant understood it to be anti trans.

Mosques, ethnic minority community centres, asylum centres etc were targeted by racist rioters. I haven't heard of trans support groups & centres being targeted. My friend said she didn't challenge the DEI consultant because she didn't want to be singled out as the one asking awkward questions.

LesbianNana · 20/08/2024 14:40

InkyPinkyPonky24 · 14/08/2024 18:35

The sentences are not consistent though which I think angers some people. This 13 year old girl has essentially been charged for kicking and punching the hotel door. However, I know of a family who had their door kicked and punched by a 15 year old on 3 occasions, which caused serious psychiatric harm to a member of their household. Yet the police say "we don't want to criminalise youngsters".

Consistency is needed as it will breed resentment.

There was a group of women who met at a pub and a huge mob of trans women and men surrounded the pub, screaming, pounding on the walls, doors, windows, throwing firecrackers. They would harass the ladies every week at their meetings. Police never did anything. Instead of arresting them they told the women they had to leave.

bristollyn · 19/08/2024 15:20

Yes. I do feel uncomfortable. I grew up in Northern Ireland during the troubles and I can guarantee this deterrent won't work. It will only breed further resentment and anger which will fester and only grow. Extreme example i know but Internment camps only bolstered support it did nothing to deter.We have a concept of natural justice and the punishment should fit the crime and at this point I do not think this is happening. I have been and always will be left wing but I also believe that if we do not see the injustice done to those who we disagree with we do not see the danger to civil liberty for ourselves.

EllieQ · 18/08/2024 12:47

ImikSiMik · 18/08/2024 08:36

Does anyone know what's happening to the keyboard warriors who were instigating the riots from their homes or swimming pools?

It's all gone a bit quiet on that front.

Edited

There have been a few. Bernie Spofforth (who first posted that the suspect was an asylum seeker) was arrested.

Theres been a couple of other charges as well - Julie Sweeney was jailed for a post about blowing up a mosque, and Lucy Connolly was arrested and charged with a similar offence.

Bernie Spofforth arrest

Woman who shared false name of Southport suspect on social media bailed

Police across the UK issued warnings over online sharing of an 'incorrect' name and a false story about the background of the Southport suspect

https://inews.co.uk/news/woman-shared-false-southport-suspect-bailed-3220329?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1uedyP9MBoHV3vHyDqYE-bMge_YyDGro0xqcv9lG-CYeJM4eI6l4vpfsE_aem_VvZbvQPFFjWGqDc-yd90mA

Southwestten · 18/08/2024 12:00

RobinStrike · Today 11:34
The one thing I think the government should do is introduce legislation that bans protestors from wearing masks and balaclavas. If they are keen enough to protest and be violent they need to be identifiable.

I read somewhere that there’d been talk of this with exceptions made for face coverings worn on religious grounds.

RobinStrike · 18/08/2024 11:34

The one thing I think the government should do is introduce legislation that bans protestors from wearing masks and balaclavas. If they are keen enough to protest and be violent they need to be identifiable.

itsgettingweird · 18/08/2024 10:33

And people are buying it.

Even here on Mn there's a thread (by a new poster 🤔) about how Labour are leading us away from freedom of speech.

It's funny how the people who all spout we are being led away from freedom of speech - fail to realise that freedom of speech is exactly what allows them to post such drivel online 😂

bitesthedust · 18/08/2024 10:25

RobinStrike · 18/08/2024 10:03

Who is saying this? The people being sentenced have mostly been charged with violent disorder. They have been assaulting police officers and the public, using bricks and planks of wood as weapons, trying to set fire to buildings. All of this is on various cameras and they have pleaded guilty. If they believed they were innocent they could have opted to go to trial. But it was clear they had done it.
Some people will be charged with riot which is more serious.
I can't see any innocent people or just standing protesting being charged at all

GBNews and TalkTV are saying the most ridiculous things to make ppl believe we are about to enter a dictatorship

RobinStrike · 18/08/2024 10:03

Paul2023 · 17/08/2024 10:53

But they are now saying that people who are just there and not rioting can be prosecuted.. how’s that even fair ?
Someone could go to a peaceful protest, which could be hijacked and turned into violent disorder, and they could get prosecuted too ..

Who is saying this? The people being sentenced have mostly been charged with violent disorder. They have been assaulting police officers and the public, using bricks and planks of wood as weapons, trying to set fire to buildings. All of this is on various cameras and they have pleaded guilty. If they believed they were innocent they could have opted to go to trial. But it was clear they had done it.
Some people will be charged with riot which is more serious.
I can't see any innocent people or just standing protesting being charged at all

OlympicGoldfish · 18/08/2024 09:00

Paul2023 · 17/08/2024 10:53

But they are now saying that people who are just there and not rioting can be prosecuted.. how’s that even fair ?
Someone could go to a peaceful protest, which could be hijacked and turned into violent disorder, and they could get prosecuted too ..

Who’s saying that?

CaptainMyCaptain · 18/08/2024 08:38

ImikSiMik · 18/08/2024 08:36

Does anyone know what's happening to the keyboard warriors who were instigating the riots from their homes or swimming pools?

It's all gone a bit quiet on that front.

Edited

Well, Yaxley-Lennon will get arrested if he ever tries to get back into Britain.

ImikSiMik · 18/08/2024 08:36

Does anyone know what's happening to the keyboard warriors who were instigating the riots from their homes or swimming pools?

It's all gone a bit quiet on that front.

dubsie · 18/08/2024 07:51

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

Not really because civil disorder has always seen harsh sentences. At the start of Mr Camerons reign we saw the same thing....same sentences.

My advice to anyone don't get fooled into looting and being part of civil unrest

Ted27 · 17/08/2024 12:38

@Paul2023

Well that depends what they were doing.
'riot' is a specific offence. There are many other charges available.
I think only one or two people have been charged with riot.

I have a friend who is very active with extinction rebellion. He's been on dozens of protests,including the counter protests. Never been arrested

Flopsythebunny · 17/08/2024 11:20

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Should they have been given an ice cream and told not to do it again?

Treelichen · 17/08/2024 11:07

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Eh? I used to work in youth justice and 12 and 13 yr olds were regularly sentenced for antisocial behaviour. If they break the law, they need to face the consequences.

Paul2023 · 17/08/2024 10:53

But they are now saying that people who are just there and not rioting can be prosecuted.. how’s that even fair ?
Someone could go to a peaceful protest, which could be hijacked and turned into violent disorder, and they could get prosecuted too ..

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 17/08/2024 10:46

(For 9 days a month, whilst claiming to represent a constituency).

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 17/08/2024 10:45

And meanwhile, this is what their idols are doing:

MP Nigel Farage earning more than £1m a year www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wjgkr1750o

Perfectlystill · 17/08/2024 08:57

Agree. Locking some people up for shouting at the police.

It's worrying.

Zonder · 17/08/2024 08:49

JoanOfMarch · 17/08/2024 08:46

Needs locking up.

The punishment must match those already handed out.

Can you really not seen any difference between tweeting about something you just had a call about, saying you have had a call about it and not declaring it as absolute truth, and someone making up a racist lie and tweeting it to cause trouble?

Both are wrong but one has a very different impact.

JoanOfMarch · 17/08/2024 08:46

Zonder · 15/08/2024 17:40

Did he? When? Was it because he had believed something someone told him without enough checks or was it because he made up a random slanderous comment to stir up trouble?

Needs locking up.

The punishment must match those already handed out.

dottiehens · 17/08/2024 08:45

GPTec1 · 17/08/2024 08:30

They didn't incite rioting though did they? towns up and country hit by violence, looting and Police attacked.

As far as i'm aware, the marches in London have been relatively peaceful & thats why the sentences handed out to the few marchers charged, have been very light.

the Govt/Judiciary decided to crack down on this, rightly imho, if they had not, we would have seen on going widespread public disorder.

They incited murder as the woman incited murder in Facebook. I was so shocked that I decided to leave the U.K. after those protests which I am doing imminently. I can’t believe people see it and totally separate this violence and justify it. Very concerning.

I am also scare of people killing with knives. Are they doing anything about this? Stop and search? What are they doing to prevent the murders on the streets?

CaptainMyCaptain · 17/08/2024 08:40

The difference with these riots is that, rather than individual acts of violence, they have collectively been attacking our way of life and our right to live in peace. That is why the sentences have been swift and hard - quite rightly in my opinion. I know people of colour, in particular but others too, who have been scared to go out.

GPTec1 · 17/08/2024 08:30

dottiehens · 17/08/2024 08:20

What about the people who incited murder in the pro Palestine marches. Seen on newspapers. What did they get? I won’t repeat the hideous messages here but it was actually shown widely.

They didn't incite rioting though did they? towns up and country hit by violence, looting and Police attacked.

As far as i'm aware, the marches in London have been relatively peaceful & thats why the sentences handed out to the few marchers charged, have been very light.

the Govt/Judiciary decided to crack down on this, rightly imho, if they had not, we would have seen on going widespread public disorder.

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