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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

OP posts:
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Margo2023 · 14/08/2024 18:22

I disagree, we have been so soft for so long, I'm pleased that the process and sentencing has been sped up and increased. Good riddance to them.

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 18:22

LiterallyOnFire · 14/08/2024 18:17

The message is, and should be, clear. If you act like a racist thuggish lout then there will be consequences. Looting, abusing people, damaging property, inciting violence and all the other delightful actions these 'protesters' took part in are not acceptable.

If only we could be just as harsh to sex offenders and violent misogynists.

It shows what is possible when there is a will to come down hard.

I think maybe this is the point I was trying to make. Sex offenders and violent men seem to walk away with minimum sentences compared with 15 months for a social media post?

I'd like this sort of justice to be served across the board, but of course it won't be.

OP posts:
bitesthedust · 14/08/2024 18:21

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Last time I checked Stammer was not sentencing himself?

Do you think he is choosing these sentences?

tissueboxandcandles · 14/08/2024 18:21

I understood that is impossible to arrest the vast majority of paedophiles because there are no prison cells to put them in.

AgnesX · 14/08/2024 18:20

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Awwww. What would you like, a slap on the wrist and told not to be naughty. They're old enough to know right from wrong.

And I thought was a bleeding heart liberal. 🙄

Wishitsnows · 14/08/2024 18:20

It shows that they can put on night courts and get things processed incredibly quickly. It would be great if they could do the same for rape cases for example instead of leaving victims waiting years for their case to be heard in court.

AzureBlue99 · 14/08/2024 18:19

I agree that some of the sentencing is harsh, although I am enjoying the idiots get their comeuppance. But suddenly we have prison cells galore. A few weeks ago they were only one cell away from HM Prisons being completely full. Feeling this government is going to be a bit economic with the truth like the last one. Can't go from chock full to plenty of room at the inn in a week.

It would be good if the harsh sentences were meted out to all violent crime. They had to do all this. There was a real danger of civil unrest. These sentences are deterring a repeat for the ones who have more than one brain cell.

Sirzy · 14/08/2024 18:19

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Which part of launching things at the police should they get away with then?

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 14/08/2024 18:18

It’s an effective way of stopping civil disorder.
I approve of that.

However, slow and continuous civil disorder is underway in the abuse of women and children. We see an epidemic of images of child sexual abuse, domestic violence and organised child abuse. Oh and online harassment.

I would like to see a crackdown on that.

LilacQuoter · 14/08/2024 18:18

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

The 12 year old was throwing missiles at the police and the 13 year old girl was punching and kicking the entrance to a hotel housing asylum seekers - you think they should be allowed to do those things without any punishment?

LiterallyOnFire · 14/08/2024 18:17

The message is, and should be, clear. If you act like a racist thuggish lout then there will be consequences. Looting, abusing people, damaging property, inciting violence and all the other delightful actions these 'protesters' took part in are not acceptable.

If only we could be just as harsh to sex offenders and violent misogynists.

It shows what is possible when there is a will to come down hard.

Iforgotagain · 14/08/2024 18:17

I don't disagree with the sentencing but it seems insane to me that people can kill people (manslaughter) and walk free, like drunk drivers (killed my SIL) or the man who punched and killed his sister, how can that not be deserving of a custodiaI sentence? I really feel that victims of violent crimes are massively failed by our justice system, especially crimes against women and children.

Sirzy · 14/08/2024 18:16

The legal system is damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t.

hopefully knowing that they will be caught and punished will stop people jumping on the bandwagon next time.

OnlyYellowRoses · 14/08/2024 18:15

Nope sorry I completely agree with a come down hard on them approach. Let them know from the start it's not acceptable behaviour. I think maybe if even first time offences were likely to end in a prison sentence if would deter people from acting like numpties in the first place

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 18:14

Snacksgalore · 14/08/2024 18:04

It seems to inline with what happened after 2011 riots. I’m a supporte if Starmer but I don’t think anything that is happening here is unique.

That's interesting. I wasn't in the country at the time of the 2011 riots so wasn't aware of the aftermath, but just looked it up and about 4000 arrests were made, so you might be right!

OP posts:
Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 14/08/2024 18:14

Honestly it is too much. I know loads of people who never even get prosecuted. Two teir Keir indeed.

alwaysmovingforwards · 14/08/2024 18:14

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

I agree with your idealism.
But justice always has and always be political.

InfoSecInTheCity · 14/08/2024 18:14

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:09

@LiterallyOnFire I CSA cases need longer sentences.

I don’t think the rioters deserved shorted sentences.

Yes!

If anything this has just highlighted how light other sentences are, rather than these sentences being to harsh.

The message is, and should be, clear. If you act like a racist thuggish lout then there will be consequences. Looting, abusing people, damaging property, inciting violence and all the other delightful actions these 'protesters' took part in are not acceptable.

magicmushrooms · 14/08/2024 18:13

No, I think this is long overdue and about time there were consequences to actions.

Yes, it is unfair as others have got away with it now, but if the police see that the people who carry knives will get dealt with maybe they will start stopping and charging people.

Begsthequestion · 14/08/2024 18:11

I thought you could get 5 years for carrying a knife?

Also, do you remember the way the 2011 rioters were punished? 24/7 courts, jail time for stealing bottled water etc. This seems pretty similar.

LilacQuoter · 14/08/2024 18:10

Nope - glad to see this has all been clamped down on fast and hard. If it makes you feel better its unlikely that all of them will serve full sentences.

LiterallyOnFire · 14/08/2024 18:10

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:09

@LiterallyOnFire I CSA cases need longer sentences.

I don’t think the rioters deserved shorted sentences.

Completely agree.

PickAChew · 14/08/2024 18:10

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

12 and 13 year old who get away with shit are highly likely to grow into adults doing the same shit.

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:09

@LiterallyOnFire I CSA cases need longer sentences.

I don’t think the rioters deserved shorted sentences.

DadJoke · 14/08/2024 18:08

Those who have been sentenced pled guilty. 70% had previous convictions, some of them for multiple crimes. There sentences pale in comparison with the Just Stop Oil protestors. High sentences for organising and participating in hate-fuelled violent riots is good public policy.

We'll see what happens in those cases which go to trial.

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