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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

OP posts:
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Prawncow · 14/08/2024 18:33

Over71 · 14/08/2024 18:30

These cases have been prioritised, to the disadvantage of others that have been waiting a very long time to come to trial.
How can that be right ?

We can’t have any trials if court workers, witnesses and lawyers can’t get to the courts because there’s rioting and people are afraid to be out in city centres or use public transport. Public order has to come first.

Nowordsformethanks · 14/08/2024 18:33

This is a whole load of whatbaoutery. Not surprising coming from mumsnet though.

Whatever sentencing they get is not enough. Instead of wringing hands about how these poor lovely criminals are suffering "too much" sentence for their criminals act, govt should step up harsher sentencing for every other criminal. Young or old.

MounjaroUser · 14/08/2024 18:33

I think it's been absolutely fantastic and Starmer's gone right up in my estimation.

DadJoke · 14/08/2024 18:33

Over71 · 14/08/2024 18:30

These cases have been prioritised, to the disadvantage of others that have been waiting a very long time to come to trial.
How can that be right ?

To be clear - you would prefer them to have been given a lower priority, which would mean not a one of them would have been sentenced by now? What do you think the effect of that would have been?

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:32

@Sirzy @LilacQuoter

They are children. No one is saying there shouldn’t be consequences but being charged and taken to court within days within no time for any thought, care or time to look at their circumstances and how those children came to be involved or their background is absolutely inhuman and would be rightly condemned in any other circumstances. No one is condoning the riots but that doesn’t excuse 20 years plus years of research and understanding into the impact on young people being swallowed up by the criminal justice system being thrown away to the virtue signally left. The same people who were applauding the appointment of James Timpson are now delighted that a 13 year girl has been arrested and convicted within days

I’m so unbelievably angry

BiggerBoat1 · 14/08/2024 18:31

Not uncomfortable at all. These sentences reflect the country we should be, not the country these bigoted idiots want us to be.

Mespher · 14/08/2024 18:31

Some people are going to Crown court in September so not all of them are so fast

bitesthedust · 14/08/2024 18:31

Over71 · 14/08/2024 18:30

These cases have been prioritised, to the disadvantage of others that have been waiting a very long time to come to trial.
How can that be right ?

So…did you want more riots?

bitesthedust · 14/08/2024 18:30

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 18:22

I think maybe this is the point I was trying to make. Sex offenders and violent men seem to walk away with minimum sentences compared with 15 months for a social media post?

I'd like this sort of justice to be served across the board, but of course it won't be.

It needs to start somewhere somehow?

I do wonder how the Tories would have handled the situation though - very curious

Over71 · 14/08/2024 18:30

These cases have been prioritised, to the disadvantage of others that have been waiting a very long time to come to trial.
How can that be right ?

NeverDropYourMooncup · 14/08/2024 18:30

LiterallyOnFire · 14/08/2024 18:17

The message is, and should be, clear. If you act like a racist thuggish lout then there will be consequences. Looting, abusing people, damaging property, inciting violence and all the other delightful actions these 'protesters' took part in are not acceptable.

If only we could be just as harsh to sex offenders and violent misogynists.

It shows what is possible when there is a will to come down hard.

Shitty stains on the arse of humanity they may be - but they aren't posing a very real threat to the authority of government like hundreds of people out to burn down buildings, lynch Muslims and loot property in the confidence that the Police aren't able to do anything if enough band together and that even if the Army were sent in, they're not going to be shot; otherwise known as anarchy.

TheHouseElf · 14/08/2024 18:30

I am really disturbed to see that a young autistic lad, with learning difficulties, has been sent to prison. Yes, he should be punished for his part it rioting and the destruction he was responsible for, but who is it actually serving to send such a vulnerable person, as he undoubtedly is, to prison. Surely some other form of punishment could have been decided for him.

LilacQuoter · 14/08/2024 18:29

Agree with everyone mentioning the 2011 riots - I remember headlines like '6 months for stealing bottled water' and things like that.

caringcarer · 14/08/2024 18:29

EllenLRipley · 14/08/2024 18:08

There are extensive threads comparing specific judges sentencing on these crimes vs child rape/abuse/DV/Images of child abuse (many where recent immigrants have committed the crimes) and it is very shocking and will fuel ill feeling in areas that have already ensuring grooming scandals etc like Oldham/Rochdale.

I agree. I think all crimes should receive fair prison time. I do think longer prison sentences deter crime but I daresay they will be let out after only serving half their sentence which always seems bonkers to me if a judge has applied a tariff it should stand with no early releases. We should build more prisons.

BreadInCaptivity · 14/08/2024 18:29

GoTigers · 14/08/2024 18:06

I think the government have played an absolute blinder.

Minimal police reaction to the riots, get the bastards nicked, charged and in court ASAP. Name and shame them, release their deserved sentences and watch their mates crawl back to their sewers.

Very well handled.

I agree.

The alternative was a drawn out process where via SM the rioters kept targeting new locations.

Not so smug now are they?

Potsnpotz · 14/08/2024 18:28

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 18:22

I think maybe this is the point I was trying to make. Sex offenders and violent men seem to walk away with minimum sentences compared with 15 months for a social media post?

I'd like this sort of justice to be served across the board, but of course it won't be.

The sentence are higher because it’s part of deterring more riots. I do wish they did have higher sentence for rapists and murderers too, but these situations are looked at differently when the country looks like it’s at risk of tipping into full scale chaos and disorder.

If this was just a lone racist thug setting a bin on fire or trying to loot a corner shop, they probably wouldn’t have got even a custodial sentence. It’s the being part of wider civil disorder that is linked to these higher sentences.

Back in 2011 I recall someone was jailed for stealing water or something daft like that. It wasn’t because of the act of stealing something that was worth a few quid, but because it was done as a part of the riot! Very unlucky for the person who was jailed for doing that though! And I know a guy jailed for 6 months for stealing baby clothes during the 2011 riots. Really decent guy otherwise but he messed up and paid a high price.

bitesthedust · 14/08/2024 18:27

1- if it wasn’t for the quick action from govmt and the sentencing, we would have seen riots once again after the Trafalgar Square stabbing

2 - if quick action and the current sentencing did not take place, people would also complain about lack of govmt initiative

3 - I want to see Nigel F, Andrew T, T Robinsin and Elon M answering and getting sentences too - it is going to be huge disappointing if they don’t

4 - bring GBNews and Talk Radio into the conversation and sanction them too

HelpMeGetThrough · 14/08/2024 18:26

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged

What's the alternative, "gentle parenting"?

EmeraldRoulette · 14/08/2024 18:26

@TiredWife much discussed on other threads but the 2011 riots were treated the same

there’s a reason for that

re the Facebook post, do you not see that as incitement? What sentence would you think was fairer, given the clarity of the comment?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6x105wgz5o

Prawncow · 14/08/2024 18:26

Those are exactly the kind of sentences that are appropriate for rioters. This is what happens if you decide to join in with large scale public disorder.

As for the 13 year old girl

A 13-year-old girl has been convicted of violent disorder following unrest outside a hotel housing asylum seekers during the riots.
She pleaded guilty to the charge after she was seen punching and kicking the entrance of a Hotel during a protest in Hampshire, on 31 July.

You think it’s inappropriate that she’s been charged? Really???

Margo2023 · 14/08/2024 18:25

@Noname99 but if they have participated in a criminal act, why do you have a problem with them being charged? There is an age of criminal responsibility and in England it is 10. Often, it's these young thugs that get away with their crimes who go on to more severe criminal activity in later life. Why wouldn't they, if there are no consequences to their actions?

Mischance · 14/08/2024 18:24

Peaceful demonstration is an important plank of democracy. The sort of behaviour we saw from these rioters is not something that can be tolerated, and open racist stirring is illegal.

So - no I am not worried by the sentences - they reflect the current laws of the land and that is how it should be.

The relative leniency of some pother sentences is a matter for a change in the law in those areas and not a good reason to not apply the law to these rioters.

LightSpeeds · 14/08/2024 18:23

Not uncomfortable at all about it. It's what's needed as 'law and order' has gone to complete shite in this country.

I'm sure it's why the rioting seems to have stopped - it's not quite so tempting to have a good night out chucking bricks when it could land you in the clink for 2 years!

Potsnpotz · 14/08/2024 18:23

yes Op, I note you said you weren’t around in 2011 but it’s similar to what happened in 2011 or possibly the sentences are even less than what was given out then!

So I hope anyone who was around back then and opposes the length of these sentences opposed the 2011 sentencing too.

And I was in London in 2011 and while I was worried about the riots, it wasn’t the same hatefulness behind it and while yes shops were looted and buildings destroyed etc, it didn’t have the same venom, bigotry and hate behind it so if anything they should come down on this lot much worse.

tissueboxandcandles · 14/08/2024 18:23

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 14/08/2024 18:18

It’s an effective way of stopping civil disorder.
I approve of that.

However, slow and continuous civil disorder is underway in the abuse of women and children. We see an epidemic of images of child sexual abuse, domestic violence and organised child abuse. Oh and online harassment.

I would like to see a crackdown on that.

Yes but apparently these things are less serious/ no court availability/ no room in the jails...

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