Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

I think the sentences are definitely a big deterrent. I think we could have seen many more ‘protests’ if the arrests and charges had taken longer. In my area the planned demo later in the week did not go ahead thankfully.

I remember the sentencing during the 2011 riots and being shocked at the time. People who were just passing by and joined in the opportunistic looting by helping themselves to a few things were locked up. I expected it to be similar this time.

I will say I feel slightly sorry for some of the individuals who were older and had never been in trouble before or the woman who led a quiet life and was a carer for her husband and wrote something on social media. The judge’s remarks are helpful in explaining why the sentences have been given. In all I support the harsher sentencing.

"A long-delayed sentence that is eventually wrung out of a terminally blocked and slothful system seems much less intuitively linked to an individual's behaviour, much more like a random bureaucratic imposition"

Are you referring to the trial process?

The rioters by and large have pleaded guilty which meant that they could be sentenced swiftly.

We have seen existing sentencing guidelines - none of which have been altered since Labour came into government.

Maybe it's the previous administration that you should be looking at for the terrible state of our justice system - the backlogs in court cases, the lack of appropriately qualified barristers for rape and sexual assault cases & the lack of prison spaces.

True but if you can charge one child, you can charge another who actually caused harm.

Exactly, I don’t know why some people are deliberately ignoring this. Wilful ignorance or lack of understanding?

Again I hope if they “object” to these sentences and point out a lack of “consistency” they said the same in 2011!

I mean I'm all for what's said on the net staying on the net, but she made a direct bomb threat so it seems like minimal sentence.

We can all make mistakes, you can get 2 year for serious injury by careless driving or be pressured into carrying a blade etc.

What these rioters have shown is hatred towards their fellow humans, in my eyes its worse than drugs offences etc they should be all getting life until they prove they have changed.

There are extensive threads comparing specific judges sentencing on these crimes vs child rape/abuse/DV/Images of child abuse (many where recent immigrants have committed the crimes) and it is very shocking and will fuel ill feeling in areas that have already ensuring grooming scandals etc like Oldham/Rochdale.

@EllenLRipley anyone comparing these to Oldham/Rochdale is nothing but a racist. This is a specific set of circumstances ie. Riot and widespread disorder so the comparison would be 2011 riots if anything. They’re deliberately comparing apples and oranges.

The vast majority of child sexual abuse does not get committed in Oldham and is not committed within grooming gangs so why the constant fascination with these particular sets of scandal? There was a massive disgusting white grooming gang jailed in Scotland a year or so ago and I barely hear anyone go on about that.

There is a wide scale problem of men (and some women ) of ALL races and nationalities abusing women and children and getting away with it. It’s been happening in children’s foster homes, residential schools, sports clubs , churches and most of all in family homes. For so many years plenty of fathers uncles, priests and scout leaders have been evading justice with institutions protecting them - which is vile, so why not address the whole wider problem?

Why would they point out the “Asian grooming gang” sentences only as a point of comparison ?

Plenty of white men - who are committing about 85% of the CSA in the UK get off lightly with child sex abuse. In fact criminal justice system stats show white men in general receive more lenient punishments in the criminal justice system compared to Asian and Black men who have committed similar crimes.

Are they going to riot about that and ask for white men to be punished more equally compared to other races ie. More Harshly? Hmm doubt it!

Yes, there's been a spate of kids kicking doors in my neighborhood, lots of elderly victims, captured on ring door bells. Police not interested.
I actually think the parents of child criminals should be charged, they are the ones dragging these kids up. Children brought up in loving homes with boundaries don't behave like this. Same goes for the parents of the 'child' who killed those little girls. Maybe if we start holding parents responsible they'll start parenting their kids.

This is the bit that makes me feel uncomfortable too. Why the difference?

Society just doesn't value the safety of women and children the way it values peace on the streets.

Look at the predictions for Huw Edwards' sentencing. Not hands on offences, but we all know that men like him create the market for RL child abuse. Yet we just slap wrists.

Look if they hadn’t cracked down fast and tough like this, these rioters would still be at it. Is that what you want? This kind of destructive movement cannot be allowed to gain momentum. The politicians and judiciary have no choice and don’t question it.

Consistency is needed as it will breed resentment.

Rioting is always treated differently, as it should be.

Has anyone seen the report of the 2 men jailed in past few days? Plymouth court I think?

The judge was bloody brilliant.

The defendants went on about "the immigrants" costing the taxpayer.

So he highlighted all their previous (think one had about 39 convictions and had spent about 10 years in and out of prison). Their previous was burglary, setting fire to cars, damage to property etc as well as affray type crimes.

He asked them how much they thought they'd cost the taxpayer 😂

I wish I'd seen their reaction!

Have they though?
Or is it just faster because the evidence is very easily available. It’s on body worn footage and social media, and the offenders were actually arrested at the scene.
CPS can make fast decisions to charge, offenders plead guilty and it will only require Magistrates not Crown Court.

I agree with you OP, for the same reasons than @ReadWithScepticism

While I do want to see the rioters locked up, I hear what you are saying. It feels as if it’s being done to “make a point”; Mr New Broom asserting his authority, like a newly appointed headmaster changing the uniform to a far stricter regime, saying “things are going to be different now I’m in charge”, in other words, “this is going to be different from soft touch Tory Britain”. Is this a good thing? It remains to be seen. Soon the prisons will be full again, the riots will be old news, yet women and girls will still be assaulted by men. Will soft touch sentencing return for that?

Starmer is still in the honeymoon period, and he knows that everyone is watching how he handles this. It is hard to believe it’s mere coincidence that this came moments after “we have to release criminals early to make space in the prisons”. Also, some people are concerned that this is setting a precedent of “the government can fast track you to prison if you say something they don’t like”.

I feel uncomfortable about it. Not because I particularly care about the people who, by their criminal actions, have laid themselves open to harsh sentencing, but for two reasons:

-- The rule of law requires equal treatment under the law, and respect for it is potentially undermined if treatment isn't clearly in line with other sentencing.

-- More importantly, the speed of sentencing rams home just how utterly broken our criminal courts system is. It makes clear just how much more of a deterrent a rapid consequence is. A long-delayed sentence that is eventually wrung out of a terminally blocked and slothful system seems much less intuitively linked to an individual's behaviour, much more like a random bureaucratic imposition. Not to mention the appalling stress on victims, witnesses and the accused when prosecution and sentencing are massively delayed.

My daughter is an autistic teen with learning difficulties

She would never have participated

I know it is not right to compare but being autistic and having LDs don’t stop you from knowing right from wrong

Heck, I was a TA working with autistic children with LD in Y1 and I can absolutely say that some of them would never do that even as 5 years old

Whereas others who were NT and quite bright absolutely would - in fact some of them are in their late teens now, in gangs, selling drugs, breaking in cars and god knows what else

‘being charged and taken to court within days within no time for any thought, care or time to look at their circumstances and how those children came to be involved or their background is absolutely inhuman and would be rightly condemned in any other circumstances. ‘

She chose to plead guilty, which will get her some leniency, and she’s now on bail awaiting sentencing. Now they’ll get reports about her background etc for mitigation.

Why shouldn’t they be charged? They’re not going to get life imprisonment, just a supervisory order. What would you expect?

The first case probably had previous. There were people rioting wearing electronic tags.
The second case is nothing like misogyny posted online. People were openly inciting murder and telling people to go and set fire to hostels and hotels with people in them. Try posting publicly lots of posts telling people to go to a named address and burn the house down with people inside, and them see how the police respond.

This!

A prison sentence for a Facebook post is ludicrous

The sentences are not consistent though which I think angers some people. This 13 year old girl has essentially been charged for kicking and punching the hotel door. However, I know of a family who had their door kicked and punched by a 15 year old on 3 occasions, which caused serious psychiatric harm to a member of their household. Yet the police say "we don't want to criminalise youngsters".

Consistency is needed as it will breed resentment.

I’ve just watched the news where a man convicted of sexually assaulting a woman on a train got a twenty month sentence- compare this with the fifteen month sentence for the social media post. I’m not saying she should have got less but he should definitely have got more- tougher sentences need to be seen to be applied fairly and proportionately across the board

Because if they hadn’t taken that approach you’d be looking at a repeat of 2011 and worse. I feel a bit weird explaining that though. It’s starting to seem like if people don’t understand, I don’t know how to get them to understand.

This is the bit that makes me feel uncomfortable too. Why the difference?

Those children broke the law.

Plenty of children have been charged with offences - some for horrific murders.

It send a great message to kids that "I'm a kid" isn't a defence in law. And it's a great chance to rehabilitate these kids before murder becomes the first crime we hear about thy they've committed.