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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

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Thewildthingsarewithme · 14/08/2024 19:06

If I don’t use a yard stick I think great sends a nice clear message. If I compare it to the sentences handed down for rape, possession of child sexual abuse images and domestic battery I just feel furious, tells us all we need to know about the importance of women and children in our society

Prawncow · 14/08/2024 19:06

This whole thing could be framed as ‘people stunned that their actions have consequences.’ If you take part in mob violence what do you think will happen?

BubblePerm · 14/08/2024 19:02

The children involved are unlikely to go to prison, but will get much needed social services involvement, interventions and the spotlight put on how they have been parented. It will help them in the long run.

krustykittens · 14/08/2024 19:02

westisbest1982 · 14/08/2024 18:51

No, it isn’t. In the case of the moron who was sentenced today at Chester Crown court to 15 months after pleading guilty to sending communications threatening death or serious harm, she wrote on Facebook “It’s absolutely ridiculous. Don’t protect the mosque. Blow the mosque up with the adults in it."

Apparently her husband, who she cared for, wrote a ‘heartrending ’ letter to the judge. Well, boo fucking hoo.

How would you have dealt with this person?

This is incitement to kill and is very serious. If people go online to whip up more hatred and violence during riots they should rightly be punished harshly. Too many key board warrior out there, from all walks of life.

DiscoBeat · 14/08/2024 19:02

I think it's brilliant to show zero tolerance to such disgusting and unacceptable behaviour. And yes I applaud the strong message to others.

EmeraldRoulette · 14/08/2024 19:02

@Dorisbonson ”Whilst law and order needs to be maintained, it's hard to respect a government which rapidly mobilises police response for one type of crime but not another.”

rioting shuts down everything quite quickly. What would you have done to curb it?

baroqueandblue · 14/08/2024 19:00

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

I've stopped short of defending it myself. If they had charged the parents too, then I could get completely on board.

Dorisbonson · 14/08/2024 19:00

tissueboxandcandles · 14/08/2024 18:21

I understood that is impossible to arrest the vast majority of paedophiles because there are no prison cells to put them in.

Chemical castration? Think it's given to prostrate cancer sufferers as a treatment.

Dorisbonson · 14/08/2024 18:58

Not supported the riots. Didn't vote for Reform (didn't vote). I don't support immigration levels we currently have (eg 5 times higher than France and Germany). Married to Eastern European.

I'm unhappy at the police inability to respond to knife crime, shoplifting and moped/phone theft which appear to have been effectively decriminalized. Whilst law and order needs to be maintained, it's hard to respect a government which rapidly mobilises police response for one type of crime but not another.

It's been fine for Wes Streeting to say the NHS is broken but would like a similar attitude to courts and policing which appears ineffective.

AugustAlready · 14/08/2024 18:58

pipindressup · 14/08/2024 18:04

It sends out a nice clear message that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated.
To be honest I have been impressed by this.
They got what they deserved.
Where they got the prison space I do not know.

Oh they've put some middle aged woman in for posting on Facebook, they've let out some yob terrorising little old ladies/b&e/stalking some young girl

heros aren't they!

Ted27 · 14/08/2024 18:57

@Noname99

I am not delighted that 12 and 13 year olds have been arrested, charged and convicted. I am horrified that they took part in the rioting and think they need to take the consequences for their actions.

They pled guilty to criminal offences and the law should take its course.
They will be given an appropriate sentence in an appropriate institution if that is required, they aren't being sent off to languish in adult prisons.
Hopefully they will learn a very harsh lesson and go on to lead a law abiding life.
I often see posts on here with people saying they would go 'nuclear' 'ballistic' , 'come down like a ton of bricks' and wonder what they actually mean.

What do you think is an appropriate punishment for these young people?

cryinglaughing · 14/08/2024 18:57

I do wonder if the woman who started with the false information is feeling embarrassed?

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2024 18:55

I don't bites them dust because I only saw a screenshot of the report. Hence why my exact details are scratchy!

I'll try and find a link though 🤞

PoopedAndScooped · 14/08/2024 18:54

Sending a strong direct message that Crime and racist behaviour will not be tolerated can only be a good thing

Naming and Shaming them on the news and in newspapers and jailing them is the main reason the riots stopped
So how is that a bad thing????

LilacQuoter · 14/08/2024 18:53

@Noname99 I think you're getting a bit confused here...it's actually a much more 'virtue signalling left' view to give soft punishments and to consider all the mitigating factors of someone's circumstances when it comes to deciding sentences for committing crimes.

Anyway, the 13 year old girl was in court with both parents and has been bailed unconditionally, so for now isn't being 'swallowed up by the justice system' as you so dramatically put it. So they will likely consider her circumstances before she is actually sentenced.

polyvinyl · 14/08/2024 18:53

Nope. It's exactly what was needed. So pleased by the quick action.

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2024 18:52

When we have people arrested locally they are often in front of courts within days of it's easily proven.

Crown court with a jury where there can be reasonable doubt (for example there's no witnesses to a murder) will take longer as we have judicial process.

InkyPinkyPonky24 · 14/08/2024 18:52

user1471538275 · 14/08/2024 18:50

I think it's disproportionate to sentencing for other crimes.

I understand it is designed to discourage others but it feels out of balance.

This is my feeling too. I fully agree that harsh sentences are needed to deter the riots from starting up again but perhaps if we had harsher sentencing across the board, it would deter other crimes also.

westisbest1982 · 14/08/2024 18:51

Upallnight2 · 14/08/2024 18:36

This!

A prison sentence for a Facebook post is ludicrous

No, it isn’t. In the case of the moron who was sentenced today at Chester Crown court to 15 months after pleading guilty to sending communications threatening death or serious harm, she wrote on Facebook “It’s absolutely ridiculous. Don’t protect the mosque. Blow the mosque up with the adults in it."

Apparently her husband, who she cared for, wrote a ‘heartrending ’ letter to the judge. Well, boo fucking hoo.

How would you have dealt with this person?

Zonder · 14/08/2024 18:51

Noname99 · 14/08/2024 18:05

It’s fucking outrageous. A 13 year old girl and two 12 year old boys have been charged but all the fawning labour supporters on here are defending it because their lord and master can do no wrong. It’s absolutely horrifying

Do you think teenagers should be exempt?

EllieQ · 14/08/2024 18:51

scalt · 14/08/2024 18:38

While I do want to see the rioters locked up, I hear what you are saying. It feels as if it’s being done to “make a point”; Mr New Broom asserting his authority, like a newly appointed headmaster changing the uniform to a far stricter regime, saying “things are going to be different now I’m in charge”, in other words, “this is going to be different from soft touch Tory Britain”. Is this a good thing? It remains to be seen. Soon the prisons will be full again, the riots will be old news, yet women and girls will still be assaulted by men. Will soft touch sentencing return for that?

Starmer is still in the honeymoon period, and he knows that everyone is watching how he handles this. It is hard to believe it’s mere coincidence that this came moments after “we have to release criminals early to make space in the prisons”. Also, some people are concerned that this is setting a precedent of “the government can fast track you to prison if you say something they don’t like”.

Did you have the same opinion of the Tory government’s response to the 2011 riots? The number of cases and the sentencing were similar to now, and the Tory government was still fairly new (they’d been elected in the 2010 general election) - were they ‘making a point’ as well?

user1471538275 · 14/08/2024 18:50

I think it's disproportionate to sentencing for other crimes.

I understand it is designed to discourage others but it feels out of balance.

bitesthedust · 14/08/2024 18:44

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2024 18:39

Has anyone seen the report of the 2 men jailed in past few days? Plymouth court I think?

The judge was bloody brilliant.

The defendants went on about "the immigrants" costing the taxpayer.

So he highlighted all their previous (think one had about 39 convictions and had spent about 10 years in and out of prison). Their previous was burglary, setting fire to cars, damage to property etc as well as affray type crimes.

He asked them how much they thought they'd cost the taxpayer 😂

I wish I'd seen their reaction!

Do you have a link please?

I wish all these court hearings could be on TV in full

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