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Politics

Anyone feeling slightly uncomfortable with the scale of the sentencing after the riots?

362 replies

TiredWife · 14/08/2024 17:51

Firstly, in no way do I support the disgusting, racist behaviour we've seen over the last couple of weeks, and I fully believe the major perpetrators need to be found and punished.

Given his background Starmer has obviously been able to pull lots of strings to process a huge volume of offenders through the courts, and there is clearly a directive to name and shame in the media to send the clear message that this sort of behaviour will not be tolerated. All good, and in the past I would have been firmly in support of this.

However there's something about the scale and speed of the court response which is making me uncomfortable. It feels as if they are highlighting specific cases to 'send a message' and it doesn't seem consistent with how the police and courts have handled previous similar cases.

So for instance an 18 year old has just been sentenced to 26 weeks in a young offender institution for 'possession of a bladed article in a public place'. I live near a London suburb and I reckon about a third of men out on the streets on a Saturday night would fall foul of this! But the police seem reluctant to stop them, let alone charge them?

Similarly the 53 year old woman, first offender, jailed for 15 months over Facebook hate post. Again, I don't condone what she did, but when you look at all the hate that women get online, or the death threats sent to JKR or MPs, there are few instances of people being jailed in the same way?

Justice needs to be applied fairly and consistently, across all groups, but this feels like a response at a level which cannot be maintained/applied across the board? Is that fair?

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OlympicGoldfish · 25/08/2024 11:08

@Yellowcakestand I misunderstood. My apologies 🙊

Yellowcakestand · 25/08/2024 10:38

OlympicGoldfish · 25/08/2024 07:59

@Yellowcakestand i suspect many of these newly locked up thugs’ partners and ex partners will be glad to have got rid of them for a while. Are you seriously saying it’s a joke these violent idiots were out away for so long? Because your abuser wasn’t?

No what im saying is they have come down really hard, and rightly so, on these cases.

What's a 'joke' is its not reflected across the board and others get away with far more crime and less of a punishment. In my opinion (in a forum for opinions), it deems other crimes less important.

OlympicGoldfish · 25/08/2024 07:59

@Yellowcakestand i suspect many of these newly locked up thugs’ partners and ex partners will be glad to have got rid of them for a while. Are you seriously saying it’s a joke these violent idiots were out away for so long? Because your abuser wasn’t?

OlympicGoldfish · 25/08/2024 07:56

@Wizeman i take it if you’ve seen first hand you took photos and sent them to the papers? Voicing concerns about immigration doesn’t make you a racist, being racist does. There’s a difference in how you talk about people and issues. I don’t think you’ll care, however, as this has been extensively discussed here and elsewhere, yet you bring the same old cliches.

TiredWife · 25/08/2024 07:48

MrsCatE · 25/08/2024 03:32

@tiredwife To paraphrase; "I'm not a racist, but" ... says it all

Except that’s not remotely paraphrasing what I said.
But I recognise the lazy meme-style response widely used by people who can’t be bothered to have a proper discussion and debate.
Let me guess, you also use ‘End of’ as another intellectual response?

OP posts:
MrsCatE · 25/08/2024 03:32

@tiredwife To paraphrase; "I'm not a racist, but" ... says it all

Yellowcakestand · 25/08/2024 01:24

It's a joke.

ExP, 2nd DV conviction (5th assault/GBH conviction) only got 11 months for breaking gf bones, strangulation and stalking.

Yet they are people being sentenced for far lesser crimes here to be made examples of under a new government.

RobinStrike · 25/08/2024 00:34

@Wizeman do you have any examples of peaceful protesters wing locked up? Everyone sentenced so far has pleaded guilty to violent disorder. Why would they be charged and plead guilty if they hadn't done anything? Everyone who has gone through the courts so far is on camera footage committing an offence which is why their cases have been processed so quickly.

Wizeman · 24/08/2024 23:41

dubsie · 24/08/2024 10:00

There should be no sympathy for these people inciting hate and violence. It's all based on lies and fake news with the objective of hurting a group of people. They can not be allowed to do this and the only way to crush it is to lock the culprits up.

I totally agree that anyone involved in violence should be locked up as many have on the "right wing" side of the argument. The problem is alot of people who are genuinely concerned about the state of immigration and are protesting peacefully are being locked up to. Another point to be made is that violent "counter protesters" are not being locked up. I've seen first hand in stoke on trent hundreds of young Muslim men wielding knifes and machetes etc marching around, multiple white people were attacked. I also thinks it's unacceptable that young men who are of a different race are being attacked. My main point is why is it only the right wing rioters being locked up? What about the leads riots or the "left wing rioters"? The police ran away. I feal 2 tier policing is starting to become a big issue. On top of this freedom of speech seems to be in danger. Someone that feels that illegal migration should be stopped or that migration in general is to high is labled a racist and far right by the media and by kier starmer.

OlympicGoldfish · 24/08/2024 10:43

The more I read and see photos of the riots when reading about the sentences, the more I realise how large scale and violent they were. This could have gone very wrong and I don’t feel at all uncomfortable about the length of sentences they’re getting.

dubsie · 24/08/2024 10:00

There should be no sympathy for these people inciting hate and violence. It's all based on lies and fake news with the objective of hurting a group of people. They can not be allowed to do this and the only way to crush it is to lock the culprits up.

JoanOfMarch · 22/08/2024 16:21

Ted27 · 22/08/2024 13:35

@JoanOfMarch

Ricky Jones is due in court on 6 September.

So 2 weeks...till he has his fair trial for inciting violence. I shall put it in my diary.

Ted27 · 22/08/2024 13:35

@JoanOfMarch

Ricky Jones is due in court on 6 September.

Prawncow · 22/08/2024 13:19

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/09/former-labour-councillor-ricky-jones-charged-with-encouraging-violent-disorder

*Jaswant Narwal, the chief crown prosecutor for the Crown Prosecution Service – London North, said: “The Crown Prosecution Service has authorised the Metropolitan police to charge Ricky Jones, 57, with one count of encouraging violent disorder.

“Jones was filmed addressing a crowd in Walthamstow on Wednesday 7 August during which he appeared to make remarks and a gesture to encourage others to act violently towards far-right protesters.
“He has been arrested and charged within 48 hours, and will now appear at Westminster magistrates court this afternoon. We remind all concerned that criminal proceedings are active and that he has the right to a fair trial.*

Suspended Labour councillor charged with encouraging violent disorder

Charge relates to speech in which Ricky Jones ‘appeared to … encourage others to act violently towards far-right protesters’ CPS says

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/09/former-labour-councillor-ricky-jones-charged-with-encouraging-violent-disorder

JoanOfMarch · 22/08/2024 13:11

Another couple of days flown by and still no word of Councillor Ricky Jones' punishment. Why is he not behind bars after he called for violence against right wing people which is on camera?

ImikSiMik · 21/08/2024 06:03

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgrwe361l1o

I wondered whether poor mental health would be used as a defense and it has by this thug for screaming at a police dog's face. I'd have set the dog loose on him tbh and looked the other way, the revoltimg scumbag.

A mugshot of Timbrell ,wearing a black hoodie. He has short hair and a shaven face, with neck tattoos on both sides.

Bristol unrest: 'Racist' man who threw concrete at police jailed

Craig Timbrell has been jailed for two and a half years after hurling projectiles at police during a protest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgrwe361l1o

Infrequentlyhere · 20/08/2024 16:48

I think judges take into account the deterrant effect and this sentencing was in a context where a strong deterrent was clearly needed. And it worked.

JoanOfMarch · 20/08/2024 16:45

Hold your horses LesbianNana, the MP and the airport thugs will get their comeuppance shortly. As the MP is pleading not guilty, I suspect it will be a hefty sentence as he's caught bang to rights on the camera. Same as the airport thugs. Watch this space.

Nadeed · 20/08/2024 16:15

Generally if you can not afford shit hot lawyers, and they have evidence you did it, you are better pleading guilty.

LesbianNana · 20/08/2024 16:13

GiantHornets · 20/08/2024 16:00

He pleaded guilty to violent disorder. According to the BBC report, “he helped push another demonstrator into a police officer which "precipitated a physical confrontation involving the police [and] demonstrators", the prosecutor said”

it was more than verbal insults and should not be minimised

(edited to remove accidental double quote)

Edited

Who the heck is advising all of them to plead guilty? They are getting absolutely terrible advice. It’s very strange.

Even the MP who was on camera advising everyone to slit the throats of rioters pleaded not guilty.

What happened to the Muslim thugs who beat the three cops senseless at the airport? Broke the one cop’s nose. How many years did they get?

JoanOfMarch · 20/08/2024 16:11

GiantHornets · 20/08/2024 16:00

He pleaded guilty to violent disorder. According to the BBC report, “he helped push another demonstrator into a police officer which "precipitated a physical confrontation involving the police [and] demonstrators", the prosecutor said”

it was more than verbal insults and should not be minimised

(edited to remove accidental double quote)

Edited

I read through it and could not see where it said it was more than the rude words, but I've now found the BBC page and it does say he helped push someone and had spouted rude words.

I stand corrected. It will serve as a punishment to anyone who pushes and is foul mouthed in future. Serves these yobs right.

While I was on the BBC website, I saw someone had been jailed for shouting at a police dog. There must be more to this story too! It is hard to keep up!

LesbianNana · 20/08/2024 16:02

ImikSiMik · 20/08/2024 15:13

@LesbianNana
My friend was at a work DEI meeting about putting support in place for those affected by the riots. The DEI consultant reframed the recent riots as racist & transphobic riots. Then went on about how the riots targeted large sections of the trans community.

I understand that there maybe some intersectionalities between ethnic minority and the trans communities. However, the media didn't present the recent riots as anything other than race related. So I wonder why the DEI consultant understood it to be anti trans.

Mosques, ethnic minority community centres, asylum centres etc were targeted by racist rioters. I haven't heard of trans support groups & centres being targeted. My friend said she didn't challenge the DEI consultant because she didn't want to be singled out as the one asking awkward questions.

The pub incident happened a year or so ago.

Haha transphobic riots, really? Had not a thing to do with trans people. They slot themselves into every. single. dang. thing. So ridiculous.

I don’t blame your friend at all for not speaking up, it’s best that she didn’t.

GiantHornets · 20/08/2024 16:00

ImikSiMik · 20/08/2024 15:52

@JoanofMarch they should have got him to do community service in a mosque or asylum centre etc rebuilding the damage the rioters caused. Plus, made him attend race relations and DEI training and meet with people from different communities.

He pleaded guilty to violent disorder. According to the BBC report, “he helped push another demonstrator into a police officer which "precipitated a physical confrontation involving the police [and] demonstrators", the prosecutor said”

it was more than verbal insults and should not be minimised

(edited to remove accidental double quote)

ImikSiMik · 20/08/2024 15:52

JoanOfMarch · 20/08/2024 15:44

The thugs who looted, set fire to buildings, threw bricks and fought the police needed punishment.

But reading about this pensioner who said some naughty words and got 20 months, I think it is harsh. Especially when they are letting out criminals early to accommodate this man.

Surely a fine or community service tidying up the streets, picking up rubbish or cleaning up graffiti would have been a better punishment for his verbal insults.

Otherwise, every time someone says rude words at a rally, protest, riot or public event, we will need to free up a prison cell with immediate effect.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pensioner-who-joined-riots-told-33497768

@JoanofMarch they should have got him to do community service in a mosque or asylum centre etc rebuilding the damage the rioters caused. Plus, made him attend race relations and DEI training and meet with people from different communities.

JoanOfMarch · 20/08/2024 15:44

The thugs who looted, set fire to buildings, threw bricks and fought the police needed punishment.

But reading about this pensioner who said some naughty words and got 20 months, I think it is harsh. Especially when they are letting out criminals early to accommodate this man.

Surely a fine or community service tidying up the streets, picking up rubbish or cleaning up graffiti would have been a better punishment for his verbal insults.

Otherwise, every time someone says rude words at a rally, protest, riot or public event, we will need to free up a prison cell with immediate effect.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pensioner-who-joined-riots-told-33497768

Pensioner who joined riots and told cops 'you're not English any more' jailed

David Notley, 67, has been jailed for 20 months after he took part in the far-right riots in Whitehall and chanted 'you're not English anymore' at police officers

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pensioner-who-joined-riots-told-33497768

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