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Politics

Government scraps cap on care costs to help tackle spending ‘black hole’

241 replies

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 13:44

"The social care plan would have introduced an £86,000 cap on the amount an older or disabled person would have to pay towards their support at home or in care homes from next October.

After spending £86,000 on their care, people with a high level of need would have had their care costs paid for by local authorities."

My take on scrapping this is that it looks like another move that's punitive to the lower middle class. Many of the lower middle will burn through everything they've got in short order and leave nothing to their struggling children that need it.

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FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:42

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:38

I want rich people to be taxed but I'm coming across as a Tory voter?

What are you classing as rich? It’s the usual someone else should pay.

It's amazing people think they're actually paying rather than giving back something that they've nefariously extracted via asset monopolies.

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Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:41

It’s ridiculous to argue that you shouldn’t pay care because you want to leave an inheritance. The actual poor won’t have anything to leave.

nietzscheanvibe · 30/07/2024 15:40

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:36

What do you mean give them a chance to govern? They're already in power. The election's done and dusted already.

Eh? Are you being deliberately obtuse? They've been in for 4 weeks FFS, and now they're doing what they said they'd do, make tough (unpopular) choices. You can't grow an economy in 4 weeks! 😂

Edited for typos

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:40

@FiddlyDiddlyDee but the Tory economy policy that inflated assets & resulted in little wage growth has made it worse.

Lots of people from my parents generation are comfortable because of their own merit (& some luck).

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:38

I want rich people to be taxed but I'm coming across as a Tory voter?

What are you classing as rich? It’s the usual someone else should pay.

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:38

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:34

Social mobility shouldn't be funded by inheritance- that's almost the exact opposite of what it should be

You should go up in the world on your own merit

This

That would happen in a meritocracy.

But people don't go up on their own merit, so why should the lower middle get pushed down a rung instead?

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dottiehens · 30/07/2024 15:38

blackcherryconserve · 30/07/2024 15:01

The rich always threaten to leave. I wonder if there are any figures to support their threat 🤔

Oh yes there are figures. They have been leaving in large numbers since Brexit. I personally know many and regret staying here this late myself.

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/06/20/uk-set-to-lose-thousands-of-millionaires-as-rich-vote-with-their-feet-and-move-overseas

UK set to lose thousands of millionaires as rich vote with their feet and move overseas

Thousands of UK-based millionaires set to move overseas

The UAE remains the world's leading millionaire magnet, while China and the UK are set to see mass exoduses.

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/06/20/uk-set-to-lose-thousands-of-millionaires-as-rich-vote-with-their-feet-and-move-overseas

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:37

If you look at those on PAYE the higher earners pay tax in line with other European countries. It’s the low, middle earners who pay less vs others. We do have a big discrepancy between income taxes & wealth eg IHT & CGT which is making social mobility go backwards but hopefully labour will address this.

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:36

nietzscheanvibe · 30/07/2024 15:35

Well, if you didn't want the Tories back in, then the only real alternative is a Labour Government, so let's give them a chance to govern and improve things without whining that inherences will disappear because people will "burn through" their money rather than pay for their own care.

If Labour need to pursue policies which mean the well-off are a bit less well-off, then I'm ok with that (we're talking savings and assets here, right? you want the tax payer to pay for their care so that they can pass on their savings/assets?) And, yes, the policy would impact me detrimentally should I need care at some point.

What do you mean give them a chance to govern? They're already in power. The election's done and dusted already.

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nietzscheanvibe · 30/07/2024 15:35

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:21

I want rich people to be taxed but I'm coming across as a Tory voter?

Are you feeling ok?

Well, if you didn't want the Tories back in, then the only real alternative is a Labour Government, so let's give them a chance to govern and improve things without whining that inherences will disappear because people will "burn through" their money rather than pay for their own care.

If Labour need to pursue policies which mean the well-off are a bit less well-off, then I'm ok with that (we're talking savings and assets here, right? you want the tax payer to pay for their care so that they can pass on their savings/assets?) And, yes, the policy would impact me detrimentally should I need care at some point.

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:35

I always thought the cap was a bit of a Tory con because you would still have had to pay other costs wouldn’t you?

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:34

Social mobility shouldn't be funded by inheritance- that's almost the exact opposite of what it should be

You should go up in the world on your own merit

This

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:30

KvotheTheBloodless · 30/07/2024 15:27

Look, someone has to pay for care, and if a person can afford it then they ought to pay. Inheritance isn't a right, the taxpayer shouldn't have to subsidise it for anyone.

I do think the wealthy ought to pay more as a proportion of their income though. Or even just an equal proportion would be a good start!

So bascially, for fairness, spend all your money on holidays and let the taxpayer sub you.

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KvotheTheBloodless · 30/07/2024 15:27

Look, someone has to pay for care, and if a person can afford it then they ought to pay. Inheritance isn't a right, the taxpayer shouldn't have to subsidise it for anyone.

I do think the wealthy ought to pay more as a proportion of their income though. Or even just an equal proportion would be a good start!

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:21

nietzscheanvibe · 30/07/2024 15:19

Well, you're coming across like a lower-middle who would vote Tory no matter what, so of course it's relevant. I'll wager you were on here before the election moaning about what might happen if Labour got in. 🙄

I want rich people to be taxed but I'm coming across as a Tory voter?

Are you feeling ok?

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nietzscheanvibe · 30/07/2024 15:19

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:12

That's a strawman. It's got nothing to do with this thread.

Well, you're coming across like a lower-middle who would vote Tory no matter what, so of course it's relevant. I'll wager you were on here before the election moaning about what might happen if Labour got in. 🙄

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:13

Labour actually proposed a mansion tax in 2014 for properties worth £2m or more.

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FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:12

nietzscheanvibe · 30/07/2024 15:09

Well, plenty of people continued to vote in the Tories after Austerity 1. Would you rather still have them in Government, after the shit show that they perpetrated?

That's a strawman. It's got nothing to do with this thread.

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nietzscheanvibe · 30/07/2024 15:09

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 14:50

Oh right, so austerity 2 begins with people who are already struggling in this country?

Edited

Well, plenty of people continued to vote in the Tories after Austerity 1. Would you rather still have them in Government, after the shit show that they perpetrated?

thefireplace · 30/07/2024 15:02

blackcherryconserve · 30/07/2024 15:01

The rich always threaten to leave. I wonder if there are any figures to support their threat 🤔

No there isn't & the UK is still a low tax country.

But we seem to live in fear of it happening!!!

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:02

blackcherryconserve · 30/07/2024 15:01

The rich always threaten to leave. I wonder if there are any figures to support their threat 🤔

If all the rich people tried to cleared off they'd be poorer wouldn't they because there wouldn't be other rich people to buy their assets.

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blackcherryconserve · 30/07/2024 15:01

thefireplace · 30/07/2024 14:54

Oh i'd be all for it but apparently it would mean the rich leaving the UK, so it wont happen.

The rich always threaten to leave. I wonder if there are any figures to support their threat 🤔

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 14:56

thefireplace · 30/07/2024 14:54

Oh i'd be all for it but apparently it would mean the rich leaving the UK, so it wont happen.

So basically this old chestnut is getting trotted out to protect their tory chums.

Perhaps rich people clearing off might go some way to rebalancing paper wealth with societal value.

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samarrange · 30/07/2024 14:55

Bromptotoo · 30/07/2024 14:46

Was there anything in the manifesto about Social Care?

There should have been; it's a massive problem kicked down the road for generations.

Jeremy Corbyn (of whom I am not otherwise a fan) had the creation of a National Care Service, to be joined-up with the NHS, in one or both of the manifestos that he ran under. But it didn't get much traction in debates, as far as I recall.

It would of course have cost a lot of money, probably best paid for by extending inheritance tax since the beneficiaries would have been leaving larger inheritances. I don't recall if there were specific tax plans for it.

thefireplace · 30/07/2024 14:54

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 14:53

Oh I don't know, perhaps a wealth tax which hits people around the 3million+ mark instead of the 500k- mark?

Oh i'd be all for it but apparently it would mean the rich leaving the UK, so it wont happen.