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Original poster

Government scraps cap on care costs to help tackle spending ‘black hole’

241 replies

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 13:44

"The social care plan would have introduced an £86,000 cap on the amount an older or disabled person would have to pay towards their support at home or in care homes from next October.

After spending £86,000 on their care, people with a high level of need would have had their care costs paid for by local authorities."

My take on scrapping this is that it looks like another move that's punitive to the lower middle class. Many of the lower middle will burn through everything they've got in short order and leave nothing to their struggling children that need it.

OP posts:
Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 16:05

You seem to have drifted somewhat from your OP about the lower middle classes not been able to leave an inheritance. As I said many of those won’t have anything to leave regardless of the care cap.

It’s not particularly progressive to wait until you are 50/60 plus to improve your life circumstances based on inheritance.

mitogoshi · 30/07/2024 16:04

@FiddlyDiddlyDee

If you look at the details, this didn't help the lower middle at all, only the most wealthy benefitted, what a surprise. "Hotel costs" that is bed and board were not even in the cap, only care costs

Original poster
FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 16:02

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 16:01

@FiddlyDiddlyDee what are you talking about? Most people haven’t paid enough in tax to fund their state pension & NHS.

If the elite can’t move their money around why are some G20 countries looking at a cohesive policy?

If rich people moved their money out the country that would simply be a form of quantative tightening. The people who actually work for a living would become wealthier as a result of it.

Why are you so hoodwinked by this?

OP posts:
Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 16:01

@FiddlyDiddlyDee what are you talking about? Most people haven’t paid enough in tax to fund their state pension & NHS.

If the elite can’t move their money around why are some G20 countries looking at a cohesive policy?

Original poster
FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 16:01

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:56

You left off a zero!

No I didn't the reason I started at 3 million is to collapse the ability for people to sell 30+ million pound houses down the chain if a tax was levied on them.

OP posts:
Original poster
FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:58

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:55

That's hardly social mobility. Don't you want a comfortable life with decent care and to ensure your children benefit from the fruits of your actual hard labour?

I have a comfortable life & my dc do benefit from that. I don’t see why I shouldn’t pay care costs though. I’m saving because I’m a millennial & don’t expect anything in old age. Plus compound interest is amazing 😆

Why should you pay care costs if you don't need to? You'd actually rather pay for new expensive toys to be created for people instead?

OP posts:
twomanyfrogsinabox · 30/07/2024 15:58

thefireplace · 30/07/2024 15:45

So by your own link, its got nothing to do with taxation or Labour but the Tory parties Brexit policy, followed by the Tories changes on Nom-Dom....

We've almost 3m millionaires, 9k leaving this year is a tiny %.

Show quote history

Is that 3m with a million in cash or 3m many of which have a house in what is now an expensive area and virtually no cash? Many people have a house worth 500k and a pension pot worth a few £100k, a million in assets is really not a huge amount these days. I think the 9k leaving will be multi multi millionaires, and the 'on paper' millionaires wouldn't be able to afford to leave, but also do not have tons of money you could reasonably tax.

thefireplace · 30/07/2024 15:56

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:50

This is hilarious. You're someone who has to work arguing with someone who doesn't because I profit from your labour by virtue of owning things.

People can't just 'sell' something or 'put in in a trust' to avoid tax. If we taxed everyone with a house worth 3 million+ and they all tried to clear off who would buy their houses?

They literally wouldn't be able to get out of a 10% tax. Don't pay it, forfeit the property.

Show quote history

Just to re value the top council tax bands, with help for the genuine asset rich money poor pensioner living in a house he/she bought in 1951.

A band D house in Cornwall is 2.4k might be worth 350k, owners on avg income, a band H house pays 4.8k, may be worth several million, owners multi millionaires.

Its an open door for Labour to push against.

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:56

You left off a zero!

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:55

That's hardly social mobility. Don't you want a comfortable life with decent care and to ensure your children benefit from the fruits of your actual hard labour?

I have a comfortable life & my dc do benefit from that. I don’t see why I shouldn’t pay care costs though. I’m saving because I’m a millennial & don’t expect anything in old age. Plus compound interest is amazing 😆

Original poster
FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:53

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:52

@thefireplace you tell me I never said they would leave.

People can't just 'sell' something or 'put in in a trust' to avoid tax. If we taxed everyone with a house worth 3 million+ and they all tried to clear off who would buy their houses?

A 3m house isn’t the global elite though….

I know. That's why I put 3million+, and not 3million.

OP posts:
Original poster
FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:53

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:50

I wouldn’t want to live on benefits so will continue to save

That's hardly social mobility. Don't you want a comfortable life with decent care and to ensure your children benefit from the fruits of your actual hard labour?

OP posts:
Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:52

@thefireplace you tell me I never said they would leave.

People can't just 'sell' something or 'put in in a trust' to avoid tax. If we taxed everyone with a house worth 3 million+ and they all tried to clear off who would buy their houses?

A 3m house isn’t the global elite though….

Original poster
FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:50

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:47

Wrong, They own assets here which can be easily taxed.

Which they can sell, move or put into trusts. We can only target the global elite with global initiatives.

This is hilarious. You're someone who has to work arguing with someone who doesn't because I profit from your labour by virtue of owning things.

People can't just 'sell' something or 'put in in a trust' to avoid tax. If we taxed everyone with a house worth 3 million+ and they all tried to clear off who would buy their houses?

They literally wouldn't be able to get out of a 10% tax. Don't pay it, forfeit the property.

OP posts:
thefireplace · 30/07/2024 15:50

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:47

Wrong, They own assets here which can be easily taxed.

Which they can sell, move or put into trusts. We can only target the global elite with global initiatives.

So in other words they aren't paying taxes on their assets here & as they aren't PAYE, what are they paying taxes on?

They'll have businesses that cars boats renovations will be written off against.

If they leave, what is the net loss?

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:50

I wouldn’t want to live on benefits so will continue to save

twomanyfrogsinabox · 30/07/2024 15:48

Saving seems to be a mugs game these days, if you save, at the end of your life the government takes it all away. If you spend it all they are all over you with benefits and free care.

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:47

Wrong, They own assets here which can be easily taxed.

Which they can sell, move or put into trusts. We can only target the global elite with global initiatives.

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:45

It's ridiculous to think anyone will bother to work a bit harder if they can't do so.

But that’s rubbish.

this policy would impact me for one.

Im planning to increase my hours next yr so I can save more, this isn’t going to deter me.

thefireplace · 30/07/2024 15:45

dottiehens · 30/07/2024 15:38

Oh yes there are figures. They have been leaving in large numbers since Brexit. I personally know many and regret staying here this late myself.

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/06/20/uk-set-to-lose-thousands-of-millionaires-as-rich-vote-with-their-feet-and-move-overseas

Show quote history

So by your own link, its got nothing to do with taxation or Labour but the Tory parties Brexit policy, followed by the Tories changes on Nom-Dom....

We've almost 3m millionaires, 9k leaving this year is a tiny %.

Original poster
FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:44

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:43

It's amazing people think they're actually paying rather than giving back something that they've nefariously extracted via asset monopolies.

🤦‍♀️

Big doh but I'm one of them, and clearly you're not.

OP posts:
Original poster
FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:44

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:42

And forget taxing the global elite, the clue is they are global.

Wrong, They own assets here which can be easily taxed.

OP posts:
Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:43

It's amazing people think they're actually paying rather than giving back something that they've nefariously extracted via asset monopolies.

🤦‍♀️

Original poster
FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 15:42

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:41

It’s ridiculous to argue that you shouldn’t pay care because you want to leave an inheritance. The actual poor won’t have anything to leave.

It's ridiculous to think anyone will bother to work a bit harder if they can't do so.

OP posts:
Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 15:42

And forget taxing the global elite, the clue is they are global.