Page 2 | Government scraps cap on care costs to help tackle spending ‘black hole’

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 2024-07-30T12:44:20+00:00

"The social care plan would have introduced an £86,000 cap on the amount an older or disabled person would have to pay towards their support at home or in care homes from next October. After spending £86,000 on their care, people with a high level of need would have had their care costs paid for by local authorities." My take on scrapping this is that it looks like another move that's punitive to the lower middle class. Many of the lower middle will burn through everything they've got in short order and leave nothing to their struggling children that need it.

Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 19:00

GreenPandaB · 30/07/2024 18:59

So give them £200k now and hope to live 7 years?

Honestly where are they coming from. This one doesn't even know what a pension is.
😂

OP posts:

GreenPandaB · 30/07/2024 18:59

So give them £200k now and hope to live 7 years?

Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:58

GreenPandaB · 30/07/2024 18:57

If you’ve got £200k aged 75 you can’t reasonably expect to leave an awful lot to your kids. Even without care home fees if you live another 10 years (what’s average life expectancy 86??) you’ll not have much change. Realistically with £200k you’re not going to be paying much towards your own care.

There's this thing called a pension which people live off

OP posts:

GreenPandaB · 30/07/2024 18:57

Just trolling and insulting because you're two sandwiches short of a picnic

Pot, kettle.

GreenPandaB · 30/07/2024 18:57

If you’ve got £200k aged 75 you can’t reasonably expect to leave an awful lot to your kids. Even without care home fees if you live another 10 years (what’s average life expectancy 86??) you’ll not have much change. Realistically with £200k you’re not going to be paying much towards your own care.

Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:49

User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:48

yeah except we were talking about personal tax and your alleged investments in EIS to avoid income tax.

so enough. This is just silly now. I don’t believe the state should pay for rich people’s care.

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What a load of nonsense. You even claimed corp tax can't be automatically collected you're that stupid

Rest of the profits in EIS means company profits for the hard of understanding of what an investment business is

Just trolling and insulting because you're two sandwiches short of a picnic

OP posts:

User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:48

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:41

yes hence why i just said business site didn't realise we were talking about paying personal tax through my business, and yes you can set up a direct debit, you're getting more absurd

https://www.gov.uk/pay-corporation-tax/direct-debit

Another outmatched troll

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yeah except we were talking about personal tax and your alleged investments in EIS to avoid income tax.

so enough. This is just silly now. I don’t believe the state should pay for rich people’s care.

Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:46

User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:45

Lol - op thinks those with assets should pay for her care with a wealth tax so she can keep her own money. When we pointed out it wouldn’t work- op claims she is incredibly wealthy but doesn’t pay any tax with made up stories. But is apparently still outraged that she has to pay for her own care home.

Honestly, having helped older relatives,if you can afford to pay for care you Will almost always get a much much better standard of care. I am quite happy to pay if the time comes.

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Here's some maths for you.

I have 200 grand aged 75. and I've just got a dementia diagnosis. I probably am going to have to spend 200k on care for myself.

So as soon as I get the diagnosis, I go and put my 200k on a roulette wheel.

I lose the taxpayer pays for my care, nobody is going to put me on the streets.

I win I get 200 grand to leave to my children

Either way it's a no lose free taxpayer bet.

Alternatively a cap of 86k means the taxpayer is going to save 86k

It's really not difficult to get your head around

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User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:45

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 18:31

just annoyed because im a wealthy person telling you we really not the amazing wealth creators you've been conned into believing

So was your concern for the struggling children in your OP false?

Lol - op thinks those with assets should pay for her care with a wealth tax so she can keep her own money. When we pointed out it wouldn’t work- op claims she is incredibly wealthy but doesn’t pay any tax with made up stories. But is apparently still outraged that she has to pay for her own care home.

Honestly, having helped older relatives,if you can afford to pay for care you Will almost always get a much much better standard of care. I am quite happy to pay if the time comes.

Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:42

User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:30

The only assets that are “geographically bound” though are land and buildings. These are already taxed. By the way there is now a very complicated system of tax for housing owned by companies. It’s not easy to avoid tax on housing in the uk.

the issue with this is the reason land and buildings are worth a lot of money in some places is because of the advantages of living there. It’s not that land in London has some massive intrinsic value- it’s because of the opportunities available in London partly because it’s such a business friendly city with wealthy people. If you take those away, the houses become worth what they are in other uk cities.

as I said wealth taxes have failed everywhere they’ve been tried

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More Tory propaganda

Just this week reports have been published preparing for wealth taxes

Armchair experts putting the wealthy on strange pedestals again

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Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:41

User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:39

Lol - the Shipley code is for corporation tax not personal tax. And it doesn’t collect it automatically.

need to work on your scenario for next time

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yes hence why i just said business site didn't realise we were talking about paying personal tax through my business, and yes you can set up a direct debit, you're getting more absurd

https://www.gov.uk/pay-corporation-tax/direct-debit

Another outmatched troll

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User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:39

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:27

you can setupi direct collection on hmrc business site goes to shipley ffs, don't know much do you

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Lol - the Shipley code is for corporation tax not personal tax. And it doesn’t collect it automatically.

need to work on your scenario for next time

Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:32

Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 18:31

just annoyed because im a wealthy person telling you we really not the amazing wealth creators you've been conned into believing

So was your concern for the struggling children in your OP false?

why would it be false?

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Hangingupnow · 30/07/2024 18:31

just annoyed because im a wealthy person telling you we really not the amazing wealth creators you've been conned into believing

So was your concern for the struggling children in your OP false?

User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:30

PocketSand · 30/07/2024 18:17

The global Covid pandemic that required a global response and led to a huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich leads the way in what is possible. (Spoiler - it's always been possible - see labour theory of value).

It highlights that is is also possible to orchestrate a global response that transfers wealth from the already rich to the poor, but hard working, and eradicate child poverty, support the sick and disabled and still have enough room to reward those to that have gone above and beyond regardless of their inherited cultural capital.

So if we have a wealth tax the already rich who want to stay rich and will run away. But who will buy their assets? This is not a tax on income but assets which are are geographically bound - like a house on Cheney walk - you can't register it as a company asset to a Panamanian company. Close off loopholes to the riich.

There are so many ways the rich stay rich and the poor squabble for the crumbs.

The only assets that are “geographically bound” though are land and buildings. These are already taxed. By the way there is now a very complicated system of tax for housing owned by companies. It’s not easy to avoid tax on housing in the uk.

the issue with this is the reason land and buildings are worth a lot of money in some places is because of the advantages of living there. It’s not that land in London has some massive intrinsic value- it’s because of the opportunities available in London partly because it’s such a business friendly city with wealthy people. If you take those away, the houses become worth what they are in other uk cities.

as I said wealth taxes have failed everywhere they’ve been tried

caringcarer · 30/07/2024 18:30

The tip of the iceberg I'm afraid. The elderly and ill will be huge targets for Labour.

Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:27

User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:22

tax collected automatically??? How does that happen!

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you can setupi direct collection on hmrc business site goes to shipley ffs, don't know much do you

OP posts:

Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:26

User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:21

No dividends do not attract tax relief in that scenario. And profits of a company are subject to corporation tax on a yearly basis.

oh dear! Back to the drawing board for you.

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that's a highly tax efficient way to pay yourself, low salary + 20% corp tax + dividend is better than the same in salary against corp tax

just annoyed because im a wealthy person telling you we really not the amazing wealth creators you've been conned into believing

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Heavyboom · 30/07/2024 18:24

It's another completely unaffordable vote winner policy the last government announced, in a desperate attempt to keep the middle class vote. There's no way it was ever going to happen.

User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:22

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:05

Yes I did your own jealousy is shining through. How come you're so angry?

Written a large cheque to HMRC, why would I do that? Who the f doesn't get their tax collected automatically after their accountant's minimised the tax they're due?

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tax collected automatically??? How does that happen!

Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:22

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 17:56

You keep going on about this wealthy person nonsense.

Here's some maths for you.

I have 200 grand aged 75. and I've just got a dementia diagnosis. I probably am going to have to spend 200k on care for myself.

So as soon as I get the diagnosis, I go and put my 200k on a roulette wheel.

I lose the taxpayer pays for my care, nobody is going to put me on the streets.

I win I get 200 grand to leave to my children

Either way it's a no lose free taxpayer bet.

Alternatively a cap of 86k means the taxpayer is going to save 86k

It's really not difficult to get your head around

Show quote history

Didn't answer this eh

OP posts:

User6874356 · 30/07/2024 18:21

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 17:59

Dividends do attract relief if you pay yourself 12k a year salary 40k a year (now 60 but my business is sold) pension, 37k dividend and dump the rest of your profits in EIS schemes then sell your company with a 10% ep relief once you've accumilated a huge amount of profit.

Show quote history

No dividends do not attract tax relief in that scenario. And profits of a company are subject to corporation tax on a yearly basis.

oh dear! Back to the drawing board for you.

PocketSand · 30/07/2024 18:17

The global Covid pandemic that required a global response and led to a huge transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich leads the way in what is possible. (Spoiler - it's always been possible - see labour theory of value).

It highlights that is is also possible to orchestrate a global response that transfers wealth from the already rich to the poor, but hard working, and eradicate child poverty, support the sick and disabled and still have enough room to reward those to that have gone above and beyond regardless of their inherited cultural capital.

So if we have a wealth tax the already rich who want to stay rich and will run away. But who will buy their assets? This is not a tax on income but assets which are are geographically bound - like a house on Cheney walk - you can't register it as a company asset to a Panamanian company. Close off loopholes to the riich.

There are so many ways the rich stay rich and the poor squabble for the crumbs.

Lilysgoneshopping · 30/07/2024 18:06

Pointless really working hard, building up a pension pot, some modest savings. Don't bother buying a house, especially if you need a care home.
How about redirecting the 8 million quid a day spent on illegal immigrants. That would fill the black hole several times over

Original poster

FiddlyDiddlyDee · 30/07/2024 18:05

Teentaxidriver · 30/07/2024 18:01

No, you didn’t graft for years to establish a business did you? The jealousy shines through you language, besides as has been noted before, you could have written a large cheque to HMRC and not used an EIS.

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Yes I did your own jealousy is shining through. How come you're so angry?

Written a large cheque to HMRC, why would I do that? Who the f doesn't get their tax collected automatically after their accountant's minimised the tax they're due?

OP posts: