Immigration, how did we get here?

So your issue is that immigrant workers may one day in old age need care? Presumably they will have paid INTO the system in their working years and have cost less than the equivalent home grown worker because you didn’t have to pay to educate/health/care for them pre immigration.

I’m 60. I don’t remember this.

Well because it increases the needs to import more people, yes we have an aging population but equally we have a falling U.K. birth rate, you can bring people in to care for the elderly, one day they will be elderly and needing care- it’s a short term solution creating an even long term problem.

Back in the 70's we had plenty of factories, bakeries and small businesses offering hours which were attractive to the at home Mums. We had the busses so that they could get there, too. Fewer women had their own cars then.
Times like 6-8 in the evening, Sunday afternoons. Lunch time pub shifts - we had plenty of pubs then.
Tea time cleaning shifts.
Not so much the higher paid roles, you certainly took the hit if you were at home.
Then there was the army of women who went spud and fruit picking in the season. Took young children with them to play.
There were no zero hours contracts, you knew you had 2 hours a day or whatever.
I think zero hours should go. Even if it is a couple of hours a day, you should be able to rely on it.

Absolutely this.

@Fordian NMW has its own issues. The cost of existing (not living) is an issue to sort before you meddle with wages.

There are way too many economically inactive working age people in this country.
I remember the days when if you refused jobs within your capabilities, your state handouts were stopped.
Perhaps it's time to bring this back
And start clamping down on the massive benefit fraud as well

I think there are lots of issues. The 50% target was stupid as it just creates needless qualifications inflation and increases expectations. I think as well it’s easy to just rely on importing trained people rather than bothering to do something about people here. There are lots of people who could have been trained. I hate on threads like this when people just talk down people. I think more could be done to encourage people into needed professions. I hadn’t a clue what to choose when I was a teenager and could easily have been happy in some needed profession.

Does it matter? Does it matter if your plumber/builder/carer/Dr/whatever wasn’t born here? If they’re paying taxes you are literally getting the benefit of another countries education and training.

I don’t know anything so a . Wild guess, mental health issues, poverty, ugly places to live? I don’t know

It's not just 'today's kids' who look down on anything without a degree; it's employers.

Last place we lived I knew quote a few studying with OU or been mature students at actual uni in recent past because they'd all been told could't progress their careers without a degree. It can often be harder to get later as kids, work and mortgages all start to be part of life.

@Sausagenbacon I don't know why you think this is a uk only problem. I have a lot of European colleagues. In the Netherlands menu's and ordering options are changing because many waiters don't speak Dutch. Kitchen staff are increasingly immigrants too. Germany struck a dea with an African country where a certain number of people trained for mostly technical will be provided every year. The Germans will support skills development in that country then cream off some (the best?) to work in Germany. Almost every European country has shortage of workers whether you term them skilled or non skilled.

Younger women can earn more money ow online as content creators, influencers or Only Fans than bar work.

Publish the country's unpaid and probably unplayable student debt.

That'll make some people sit up!

My DC has just graduated Graphic Design, rated uni, done well.

But they shouldn't need a degree to do GD! But you won't find an employer who'll take on someone on a living wage who hasn't already funded their own training.

It's not just 'today's kids' who look down on anything without a degree; it's employers.

Overhaul minimum wage. Make work pay so the tax payer isn't shoring up the wages of MW employees, subsidising the employer;

Make apprenticeships fit for purpose, no more 'apprentice barista' of 'childminder'.

Fund techs properly (like the sparkly 6th form colleges); pay the often ex tradies who teach properly.

Convert the 'unis' turning out useless degrees to become post 18 apprenticeship schools for block release so the kids get some away from home experience.

Tax unearned income properly.

Value vocation like Germany does.

In the interim, single-person/visa fixed term visas. They'll still come.

A major factor has to be house prices and therefore rent.

Minimum wage £11.44
Annual for 35 hour week £20,820.8
Monthly: £1,735

Rent - a room costs about £500 a month, 6k a year.
A house costs about 1000 a month, 12k a year,

That probably doesn't feel comfortable for most people

Council tax annually for Manchester
A: £1378.82
B: £1608.63

C: £1838.44

Gas and Electric - well the standing charge alone is about £340 a year, actually using any will increase the cost massively.
Food. An arm and a leg.
Transport. Depends in Manchester on hw many zones - but potentially... £84.20 for 3 zones.

Internet - an essential but that's hard as some people might be happy with a phone deal but say £20-30 a month perhaps.

Other things

• running a car would be almost, if not, impossible on NMW. This then excludes lots of jobs that require funny start times.

Euthanasia obviously.

What is your preferred way to deal with that?

The government house building push is a non starter, given the lack of youngsters being encouraged to be builders or tradies for around 3 generations....

So actually, we need either immigrants or the planned release of inmates in order to upskill them and provide an adequate workforce to facilitate the housing plan.

My DS enrolled on a Construction BTEC (civil engineering) 3 years ago. It was cancelled the week before commencement due to him being the only person enrolled. That department then closed. That's ONE college, and if you have ever needed to find a builder, plumber or electrician then you'd know they're mostly 40+

This.

In the 1970s there were 4 people in work for every retired person; it is now less than 2.5. It is the millstone around the neck of the economy.

I agree! Surely this makes sense….

safeguarding- I wouldn’t send a 13yr old to a random
business

Not relevant to my post then

Why can't teenagers work until they're 16 now? I loved my Saturday jobs in the 90's from the age of 13. I did used to spend the money on 10 b&h but that's not the point.

Part solution is to push apprenticeships and I think, change the pension age according to industry ie. Manual labour workers retire at 55/60