What if we had proportional representation ?

I agree with others that you can't assume that all Reform voters would have voted Conservative.

However, it is also the case that under our FPTP system the party that wins the most seats doesn't necessarily win the most votes.

Obviously they usually do, but in February 1974 the Tories won 46.4% of the vote compared to Labour's 43.1%. Labour formed the Government because they won more seats (301 compared with 297 for the Tories).

Yep but they are parts of uk wide parties that are more responsive to the realities of Westminster.

This has to be one of the more pointless hypotheticals?

If we had PR, if Reform didn't exist, if all people who voted Reform would have voted Tory instead...

If all of your stipulations were true, voting would have been very different. You can take the same behaviour and change almost all of the criteria

If we didn't have FPTP we'd have coalitions every time. The Labour party would fracture into left of centre and far left, the Conservatives would fracture into right of centre and hard right (which they kind of have with Reform).

No system is perfect, but this result shows several things - firstly that Labour's landslide is a protest vote against the Conservatives, secondly that people just want a change, and thirdly that there isn't any particular enthusiasm for Labour.

Labour have always had to govern either in collaboration with or in formal coalition with Plaid Cymru though, they've never had an absolute majority. In fact right now it's an issue that PC have withdrawn from the agreement because of Vaughn Gethin's antics.

It always bemuses me that people object to PR both on the grounds that it will lead to weak and fragmented government, and on the grounds that it hasn't stopped one party domination in Wales and Scotland!
Realistically, Wales is largely a left leaning country (PC also being broadly left), and Scotland has been dominated by the independence issue, & this has been reflected in their governments since 1999.

We have PR already. In Scotland and Wales

It still still delivers governments most people don't vote for.

Labour have been in power in wales since 1999 and the SNP in Scotland since 2007. Neither are supported by a majority.

PR is not a magical answer.

Correction - 80% either didn't want them, are too apathetic to care, or live in constituencies where they needed to vote tactically.

There was a referendum, result was didn't want it. If Reform party wants another go at that referendum, then I suppose we can do another Brexit one as well 🤷‍♀️

I think that country before party line I heard replayed doesn’t extend to PR

When you look at 9.6m to 4m and numbers of seats to 4 it’s quite dramatic

Very true. I didn't vote for who I wanted, I voted tactically like millions.

Ah makes sense thank you

@Cangar I think that is based on 60% of people eligible to vote, rather than who actually bothered to vote.

Current share of the vote is Labour 33.8%, Conservative 23.7%, Liberal Democrat 12.2%, Reform 14.4%, Green 6.8%.

The Conservatives have always opposed voting reform.

I thought 35% voted for them? I may be mistaken but that was what o thought the BBC were saying.

Labour had a lower number of total votes than last time. 21%of the electorate voted for them , so 80% either didn’t want them or are too apathetic to care .
Hardly a resounding mandate.
But of course they don’t want to go anywhere near PR.
I think the UK and Belarus are the only countries left on the world with this outmoded system.

With more greens too I suspect. And then a conservative / reform opposition

Parties campaign in a different way and people vote differently depending on the system so you can't take yesterdays vote and translate it to a different voting system.

The Scottish parliament has PR, introduced to create concensus politics and prevent one party having a majority. What has happened? The SNP has been in power for 14 years and pushed through a controversial progressive agenda.

And, as my daughter who has just sat her History GCSE pointed out last night, Hitler won in Germany under a PR system.

I wish we did have PR. I think if we did then there would probably be a Labour/Lib Dem coalition.

But that really hasn't happened in Scotland or Wales.

@SoupDragon Thankfully "very safe tory seat" has stopped meaning what it did! Two of those in Suffolk now have Labour MPs for the first time ever, one has Green. All of them have only ever been tory, and with huge majorities until now!

Where I am, the loss for Conservatives is far more than the gain for Reform, so I don't think it's that neat of a transfer.

Much of Reform, including Nigel Farage, is made up of former Tories who moved outside of the Conservitives line, many farther right or to the extremes of authortarian or libertarian, but not all Consservative voters moved that way. Many of those fed up won't have voted at all or gone for more central parties, or Independents.

I'm mixed on Proportional Representation, partially my own lack of understanding how it would work practically with all the conflicting information out there, but I am looking forward to the traditional post-General Election 'This is what we got' vs 'This is what we voted for/would have with PR' data and images.

Yes, and they all start blaming each other

("Yes I know we said we wouldn't raise tuition fees, but the nasty Tories made us")

Reform getting 14% of the vote but only 4 MPs is the most compelling argument for FPTP I’ve ever seen.

Wow, no need to be so aggressive and crude. FPTP is clearly not representative given Britain now has a multi-party system.