Reform are getting a shitload of voters

i don’t know why you’re telling me your academic background, since I didn’t mention it, and don’t care. Nor do I think it’s at all relevant to how you vote, or how anyone else votes.

But I do care that people double down on voting for a party that has recently had to expel three candidates for openly racist and bigoted comments, and from which two candidates have resigned themselves because they are concerned about the racism washing around the party. Then there is the very clear and historic racism from the man himself running it.

Legal immigrants aren't sponging, they make a vast contribution to our economy. Indeed, you only have to make a visit to a large NHS hospital to realise how very dependent we are on immigration to keep our infrastructure going.

One or our proudest British traditions is our welcome of refugees, and in many respects it's the fact that we have a population with such a diverse ancestry which makes the country what it is. It's incredibly unpatriotic to want to stop that.

Reform also has an interesting problem in the shape of a Nigel Farage because it is him I think who is incredibly divisive. Do you keep him because he can talk the talk and a certain amount of voters vote simply for him. Or do you accept that to many he is the reason no matter what you do they will never vote for reform.

and where on the right do you sit how far to the right do you go because the conservatives and labour have both become far more central so there is an opening in the right that could be acceptable to many more voters

and how many reform voters were simply a protest against the Conservatives

From the stats

Tory / Brexit / Reform share:
45% has fallen to 38%

Lab / LD / Grn / SNP share:
53% has increased slightly to 55%

So do people who just dismiss reform as racist also think they know better than the BAME voters who voted Reform and the BAME candidates who stood for Reform?

Isn't that a bit racist to say you know a black person's inner motivations better than they do?

My Reform candidate was the only black person out of 6 standing. He got 6k votes. If you add his votes plus the Tories together, then that would have been a clear win over the Lib Dems (who actually won). This is in the South, so not just a northern problem.

I do know quite a few immigrants who voted Reform too. They're obviously not anti-immigration, they're against illegal and unplanned immigration which probably affects them far more than it affects the middle class white lefties weaponising the term 'racist'.

A lot of people are hugely invested in shutting down reasonable discourse about immigration with cries of racist, and some of that is against BAME people so it's actually a racist position.

In four or five years time when labour don’t deliver (and they have no hope of delivering because there’s no money and immense amounts of debt) Reform will make exactly the same inroads into their vote like they did at the last election due to opposition to Brexit.

Thank you @Pelham678 that makes sense.

It's not as concerning as you'd think. It's just largely Tory voters who always had anti-immigration views and took the Conservative party lurching to the right. Even that wasn't enough so the Conservatives may move further to the centre which would be a good thing. Those people who voted Reform will never change their views, so it's better for them to find their natural home rather than make the mainstream parties more extremist.

Those 4 million Reform votes prevented any chance of the Tories getting back in - who probably would have done a lot more about immigration than Labour. Farage is like a mosquito that makes the two main parties do all kinds of crazy chaotic dancing they don’t want to be doing in the first place, with the result that, yes, he’s “having an influence”, but the influence is just chaos. Which is actually what I’m sure he enjoys. I can’t imagine he’d enjoy actually governing at all and having to be responsible for every facet of the country, as opposed to just stopping a bunch of poor people on boats.

Birmingham and solihull at least

Get a grip😂 nothing racist about it! It’s about time we put our own people first and stop everyone coming here and sponging everything. These other countries wouldn’t do the same for us!

Actually, yes Europe is on our foot step, in fact we are part of Europe. It is a priority partner for the EU. Do you even have the slightest clue about the politics around this situation and the threat Russia poses to the West? You do have a basic grasp of geography don’t you? I don’t think anyone is arguing against immigration where there is a need for it. But if you’re happy stereotyping immigrants that’s up to you.

Im guessing by your lack of education in simple matters and Mantra repeating you voted Labour/Green/pseudo Lib Dem’s.

I haven't read the full thread so someone else may have said this.
There are a lot of young people voting reform.
People who haven't got pre-existing entrenched political allegiances and have just taken them at face value.

Also areas of very high deprivation such as coastal towns (despite having very low levels of immigrants). labour has failed to reach these people.

Migrant hotels in the middle of their communities

SERCO makes billions and billions from this stupid half baked idea.

This falling birth rate 'problem' it is a false worry. We would have to change massively before we face the same problem that Japan has now. Vastly different numbers.
We need to reduce migration of low paid people who bring down wage levels for our own people.

For those saying Labour only got 34% - the thing is they deliberately targeted those centrist/right leaning seats at the expense of totting up huge votes in safe seats.

Had Starmer presented as more left wing then they probably would have got a few more % points - but quite possibly earned a couple of dozen fewer seats as the Tories would have hung onto a lot more. That’s FPTP for you.

I personally wish Starmer was more left wing, but from a “let’s make absolutely sure we win this election outright” perspective, what he did was the right strategy. The game is FPTP, and Starmer won a massive landslide with FPTP.

Who demand schools adhere to their religion

Where is this happening?

Ukraine is not on our doorstep. I dare say if there was war in Sweden, this sad little country would be opening its doors to Swedish people. Not brown immigrants obviously.

Next time you or your family are ill and are treated by an immigrant, think on.

The electorate has not swung to the right.
Add up the 4 main centre-left party votes (Labour + Lib-Dem + Green + SNP) and the ratio with the centre-right party votes (Tories + Reform) is about 60/40.

And yes, The Lib-Dem manifesto is well to to the left of Labour's.

It works in artificial environments like work places where there is a culture of the work place which binds each person.

Getting a long with a single neighbour has nothing to do with integration.

I’m talking about areas where the establish culture is being eroded. Massive influxes of people who don’t use the local shops causing them to close who swop housing between members of their community to get access to schools. Who don’t partake in community events so they stop happening. Who demand schools adhere to their religion. Kids who don’t mix at school. It causes massive divisions.

The fact you’re using speaking to your Italian neighbour as a sign of integration shows you don’t have a clue sbout what it’s like to live in a community with extremely high levels of immigration. It’s not just in the first generation either. People in these communities are fed up to the back teeth of being told by idiots who have no idea, how lovely it is for everyone to mix when they see their community and traditions being eroded, when their kids are being forced out of local schools. When the teachers aren’t teaching their kids because they are having to cope with 6 different languages. When half the kids in your child’s class don’t speak English and neither do the parents and have little interest in learning. Whole class parties don’t happen because only kids from the relevant community are invited. Where PE is curtailed for weeks because of fasting.

So do bigger off with your tales of multiculturalism working because your European neighbour dropped round a lasagna.

Society works because people have shared values, language and culture- as soon as these things disappear to a noticeable society starts to disintegrate.

Intergration doesn't work ? What do you mean ? There are 37 first languages spoken in the hospital I manage, we seem to get along fine, we enjoy each others' cultural heritage ( food religious beliefs etc). Are you telling me that is somehow a bad thing ? As I said to my Italian neighbour I don't want to live in a homogeneous society where everyone speaks the same language, pratices the same religion in the same way and eats the same food. It would massively impoverish my life.

This is a very middle-class take on multiculturalism/immigration. There are areas where people are having a very different experience though. Large numbers of new immigrants or certain existing communities who don't integrate. Huge pressure on social housing. Migrant hotels in the middle of their communities.

They're not stupid, or racist, to dislike their experiences.

Let's split this ' a shit load'

An odd thing to think when he's clearly done just that and (rightly or wrongly) there are no real factions left in the Labour parliamentary party.

I heard the deputy of Reform speak, he actually sounded ok.

But. They need to be a party. Roots. Not just personalities. Have a proper structure.
How many councillors do they have?
Is it all about Farage?
There were voices saying that they will rip themselves apart. Far right against middle... Just like UKIP.

In my constituency, they are the reason the conservatives are out.

I welcome other voices.
More choice is needed. But it has to be proper parties.

I'd never vote for them.

I always hear about voting on immigration matters is because of how people are worried about how immigration is affecting them in their areas - my lived experience in cities with higher multicultural demographics and in ex pit villages with very low multicultural demographics is that it is the people in the areas without many immigrants that are most concerned and talk more about reform type policies, so it’s at least partly irrational really, but imo probably driven more by fear of unknown, expedient but incorrect blame on immigration from media/politicians in sound bites and poorer living circumstances. There isn’t as much correlation between living in high immigrant population areas and wanting it to stop as is suggested. It’s just a handy tool for reform/extreme right.