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Politics

Why isn’t there a political party who sit in the middle

106 replies

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:07

I’ve been following all the political news recently and watching the live debates and can’t help but think why isn’t there a political party that represent the majority of what I would call hard working normal people want. I’m aware that this means different things to different people but surely there are some policies that people in both labour and Tory camps would agree on such as:

proper control of migration:

  1. allow in skilled workers to plug the gaps in labour, we should welcome people who add value to our country and want to contribute the society and allow them to apply for residency / dual citizenship after x years.
  2. allow safe routes and channels into the country for those fleeing persecution in their own countries, but not when they have travelled through other safe countries to get here. I’m genuinely curious why they come to UK after they have arrived in France when they could stop there - what is the draw?
  3. hard stop on illegal immigration, surely options 1 & 2 above are the correct viable options. If investment is needed in 1 & 2 then we should put it in place.
  4. stop any type of benefits for group 1 above, they haven’t paid into the country to qualify and should work to fund being here.

proper investment in healthcare:

  1. properly fund clinical staff in healthcare, overhaul managerial roles and invest in up to date IT systems to streamline services
  2. Add in more frontline clinical staff to improve quality of care basically have a more sensible ratio of clinical to admin/managerial roles (more Indians less chiefs)
  3. give PIP benefits to those who truely need it and ensure they can have a proper quality of life and support for families, the Kate Garaway documentary was heartbreaking.
  4. reduce ambiguous PIP payments for hidden disabilities that can’t be properly proven. Why does ADHD need paying for? (Genuinely curious) it never existed before and people made adjustments to their lives to accommodate any needs.

Education:

  1. make teaching an attractive profession again and support teachers to be able to teach and not be tied up with targets etc
  2. stop school fines - it’s just a money making ploy

Councils:

  1. hold them to account on their spending
  2. invest more in public services, local swimming pools, maintaining public areas, the councils should work for the people who live in their communities and reflect their needs not be run like businesses

Energy companies:

  1. again hold them to account and cap the profits they are allowed to make.
  2. enforce them to reinvest in xx% beck into infrastructure

welfare/ benefits

  1. It shouldn’t be an option to choose not to work because someone is better off on benefits, this baffles me that it’s a viable option for some.
  2. why should workers fund those who choose not to work ( not those who physically can’t)
  3. cap how long someone can be on benefits like in other countries. It shouldnt be there as an option to help short term to help get people back into work and shouldn’t be used as an alternative to working

I suppose my point is surely there’s a mid point in some of these topics that both Tory and labour voters would buy into that would make society a fairer and more united place.

once we get the country back on track we can then move forward but to me it feels like we’re in a sinking boat trying to get the water out with a teaspoon.

it’s frustrating to agree with certain policies from each party but none that truly take in the views of the majority. (Again maybe I’m disillusioned on what this is) surely there’s topics that the majority of the country agree on!

OP posts:
DogInATent · 28/06/2024 14:37

Add in more frontline clinical staff to improve quality of care basically have a more sensible ratio of clinical to admin/managerial roles (more Indians less chiefs).

Compared to private businesses the NHS is undermanaged. It has a lower ratio of managers to non-managers.

It's a lack of managers that's requiring consultants, doctors and senior nursing staff to have to spend large amounts of their time managing staff rostering and supervising administrative staff. Time that everyone would prefer them to spend on patient care.

When politicians talk about over half the staff not being patient-facing, they're including laboratory staff, porters, domestic staff, cleaners, drivers, cooks, janitors, payroll and accounts, maintenance staff, etc. and all those that provide the backroom services that enable the NHS to function and provide patient care.

If the NHS employed a sufficient number of managers they wouldn't need to buy in as much management support and consulting as they do.

bergamotorange · 28/06/2024 14:37

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:32

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow i possibly have too much faith in what support is available . Sorry your daughter doesn’t get the proper support she needs. This ties into my point about properly funding frontline clinical staff

This is what I mean - you need to understand the reality before you start moaning.

Also understand the political philosophy behind different policy proposals from different parties.

And avoid words like 'normal' because both Conservative and Labour are normal - these views and principles exist in all democracies.

Bromptotoo · 28/06/2024 14:36

User2460177 · 28/06/2024 14:32

What a rude post.

the purpose of pip is to pay for extra costs from a disability not private healthcare. Not sure what extra costs your dd has from it as you haven’t explained. One of my dds is ND - she doesn’t claim anything.

I agree with op that we do need to look again at pip.

If one of the extra costs of the disability is that she needs private medicine then that's what it's there for. The whole point of the DLA/PIP/AA group of benefits is that you get the cash and you decide how to spend it.

verdantverdure · 28/06/2024 14:36

Have you tried doing the Vote for Policies quiz to see who you align with,

Because we have two centrist parties and they're probably both standing in your constituency.

And you probably need to update your view on ADHD @UpcomingElection2024

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:35

@bergamotorange i did say maybe I’m disillusioned but thank you for you contribution 😊

Normal working people = people who go to work (maybe full time) and expect a nice happy society to live in without anger or animosity

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User2460177 · 28/06/2024 14:34

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 28/06/2024 14:29

We have the services to access her needs. But they aren’t there all the time.

Id rather have the money to pay for the services. The services are crap.

Edited

Wouldn’t we all like to have the money to pay for private health services but that’s not what benefits are for.

ido agree though that the NHS needs better management and possibly better funding

Bromptotoo · 28/06/2024 14:34

User2460177 · 28/06/2024 14:32

What a rude post.

the purpose of pip is to pay for extra costs from a disability not private healthcare. Not sure what extra costs your dd has from it as you haven’t explained. One of my dds is ND - she doesn’t claim anything.

I agree with op that we do need to look again at pip.

To be fair the statement that ADHD doesn't need to be paid for was astonishingly ignorant of just how disabling it can be.

bergamotorange · 28/06/2024 14:33

I love that you've decided your personal opinions are the 'middle'.

What the fuck are 'normal working people'????

The first step for anyone is to educate themselves about a) the reality of the existing policy landscape and b) the changes the existing parties intend to make - before calling for a new party with policies based on 'the thoughts I had in my head'.

User2460177 · 28/06/2024 14:32

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 28/06/2024 14:18

reduce ambiguous PIP payments for hidden disabilities that can’t be properly proven. Why does ADHD need paying for? (Genuinely curious) it never existed before and people made adjustments to their lives to accommodate any needs

My Dd gets PIP for ADHD. Shes too anxious to go on public transport. Shes too anxious to talk to people. She’s in severe ND burnout and is too exhausted to do anything. It also pays for private medication as our city made 17 adult assessments last year. There’s about 4000 people on the waiting list.

Does that fucking shut you up?!

Or should she spend it on gin and cigarettes?

What a rude post.

the purpose of pip is to pay for extra costs from a disability not private healthcare. Not sure what extra costs your dd has from it as you haven’t explained. One of my dds is ND - she doesn’t claim anything.

I agree with op that we do need to look again at pip.

Bromptotoo · 28/06/2024 14:32

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:27

@Bromptotoo

17,14,19,6,4 none disabled 3 different dads

If she's fit to work herself the benefit cap will apply and max payable is c£1400/month and that includes rent!!

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:32

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow i possibly have too much faith in what support is available . Sorry your daughter doesn’t get the proper support she needs. This ties into my point about properly funding frontline clinical staff

OP posts:
UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:29

@OnceICaughtACold very true I hadn’t thought of it that way.

OP posts:
ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 28/06/2024 14:29

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:21

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow no need to be rude.

like I explained this is just my thoughts and happy to have a polite debate and hear others views.

my question would be would you rather the money or the access to the services to help her and address her needs? Surely the investment in medical support would be preferred?

We have the services to access her needs. But they aren’t there all the time.

Id rather have the money to pay for the services. The services are crap.

OnceICaughtACold · 28/06/2024 14:28

It’s not really the destination that differs between the parties - do any of them say they want unhappy teachers or loads of illegal immigration? It’s how they plan to get there and fund it that differs, and that’s where it’s very hard to find a central position.

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:27

@Bromptotoo

17,14,19,6,4 none disabled 3 different dads

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UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:27

@OriginalUsername2 i appreciate it’s a hard one to prove so maybe that’s a bit controversial but I just hear so many people, a family member included who is playing the system and getting all her children diagnosed with ADHD to increase monthly payments and then she doesn’t work because with everything else she gets she gets more than enough income per month.

her children don’t have severe ADHD

OP posts:
Bromptotoo · 28/06/2024 14:25

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:24

@Bromptotoo single mum, 5 children

How old are the kids?

Are any of them disabled?

OriginalUsername2 · 28/06/2024 14:24

I was with you until “reduce ambiguous PIP payments for hidden disabilities that can’t be properly proven”. That’s a terrifying thing to say.

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:24

@Bromptotoo single mum, 5 children

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Bromptotoo · 28/06/2024 14:23

In order to get PIP you need to be over 16 and pass an assessment based on what you can/cannot do including preparing food, managing treatment and medication, washing/dressing, using the loo and interacting with others.

If you've got time to spare the guidance and scoring matrix is here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

I don't know how your friend does what you describe either. A couple on Universal Credit have £617/month to keep themselves fed, clothed and warm. Add two kids and it goes up to around £1200.

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:23

@cheese? yes I suppose it does, from what I’ve read it’s the targets and lack of autonomy that most teachers don’t like, but again I’m not a teacher so other may correct me!

that and lack of proper funding, ratio of children to teachers

OP posts:
OnceICaughtACold · 28/06/2024 14:22

Stop any type of benefits for group 1 above, they haven’t paid into the country to qualify and should work to fund being here.

Your group 1 already don’t get any benefits - including things like child benefit or tax free childcare. They also have to pay a health surcharge when they apply for their visa, which is just over £1,000 per year, on top of the taxes they pay.

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:21

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow no need to be rude.

like I explained this is just my thoughts and happy to have a polite debate and hear others views.

my question would be would you rather the money or the access to the services to help her and address her needs? Surely the investment in medical support would be preferred?

OP posts:
cheese? · 28/06/2024 14:21

Why have you decided your set of policies is "the middle"?

"Make teaching an attractive profession" isn't exactly at odds with any political party. The real divide comes in how these things are done, and how these things are paid for.

UpcomingElection2024 · 28/06/2024 14:18

@Sometimesnot also sadly he took his own life as he didn’t get the proper care needed with his mental health later in life. Monthly payments wouldn’t have helped, but proper mental health support would have rather than him just being discharged from hospital after a few days

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