Reform party seems to be ahead in my area.

I stand corrected. We're the 6th largest economy on earth and 21st re GDP per capita. My point still stands.

fifth richest nation on earth

@cupcaske123

I'm wondering why anyone would think we're the fifth richest nation when GDP per capita is what matters in terms of national wealth. We're not even top 20 on that. I certainly wish we were top 5.

I agree with @Validus 's point about the need for informed discussion. But it needs to be based on fact not fiction, misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

Nail on the head.

Yup.

Well, there was rent and investment in the property market, so twice. It is what little assets people have being bought up.

Thank you for engaging on a point of policy rather than the usual hyperbolic dross seen on these threads.

I’m going to assume the policy you present in such negative terms is the plan to replace the equalities act. Next to that aim, in the ‘contract’ it is explained that they want to stop positive discrimination on the basis that it is best for the economy if people are hired based on ability and merit, not quotas.

Bluntly, I don’t see a problem with that. Eg I want my doctors to be the best, not selected for their skin colour or other protected characteristic.

Now, perhaps they want to make other changes to it as well - but a spot of googling has not revealed a stated desire to scrap “women’s rights, and protections for gay people, disabled people and ethnic minorities”. In fact various of the contract promises are clear that women’s rights are to be protected far more than the other parties (excluding the shitshow that is the Tories) could even countenance.

I would be very interested to read statements, by farage and reform - not ‘interpretations’ by others - as to what else they would change on the equalities act. If you have any links, please do share.

Unfortunately, most commentators on this site prefer to say ‘go and google it’ - which I note I have done. Often it turns out that they are not basing their opinions on fact, but are instead simply repeating a position that someone fed to them. They then try to hide that lack of foundation by calling anyone who doesn’t fall in line with them a racist, bigot or other names. Which is of course tedious and fails to move the debate on in any meaningful or useful way.

My points stand. If the policies are bad and the intentions poor, they can be defeated via debate. But to have that debate, the other ‘side’ has to engage properly, rather than acting in an arrogant and supercilious manner towards those they clearly see as inferior in many ways.

I think that's too simplistic. Yes some Reform voters are attracted to dog whistle politics but many are absolutely fed up to the back teeth of austerity and lack of public services. Many are wondering why, in the fifth richest nation on earth, millions are using food banks and a quarter of kids are in absolute poverty.

Neither party offers any solutions, so for many, like Brexit, it's a form of protest.

Oh please take a photo and put that up on here. That is priceless. Vile racist, fascists. I can't believe so many people fall for it. It really shows how little people think things through and how racist they are.

Well of course it would benefit Farage (lovely French surname) and his millionaire cronies.

Reform are filling the gap between the hard right wingers Britain first/BNP & hard right Tory. I think a lot more 40s/50s age group are voting for them as well as the traditional older generation. Reform appeals to those who want to cut immigration but don't want to get their hands dirty like Britain first supporters.

Apologies.

@cupcaske123

Woops I was correcting a typo....

Basically I agree with what you say. apologies for the confusion and my phone autocorrect!

Does it? I mentioned it once.

Churchview
**
“….. and a third that claimed Africans “have a low IQ”

The irony 🤣

Much of your posts discusses the price of property. People who have substantial wealth are able to squeeze people having to rely on their wages.
I think that really is a substantial problem and reflects that the economy is increasingly centred on making the very wealthy are wealthier.

That's your contribution to the discussion is it? I thought this needs to be discussed without personal attacks. That we needed a 'safe space'.

I'm happy to hear your views on immigration, how it can be decreased and what can be done to fill those roles.

The Danish Peoples Party (equivalent of Reform) have been successful, but actively avoid Government for that very reason.
They actively push for more money for the wealthy, but also make slogans about more money for nurses and old people. As these contradict, they have to avoid Government but are able to get their tax breaks for the wealthy and petty restrictions for brown people.

Comical above

We have the fifth highest rate of immigration in the world so I agree that our levels aren't sustainable. I think the issue people are dodging is investment. Big business loves a constant influx of cheap labour and people who don't know their rights.

The government are inviting a lot of people in but there's no investment in infrastructure eg GP surgeries, hospitals, schools. There's no investment in training and no increase in wages to attract people from the UK into traditionally poorly paid work. Rent is often impossible to afford due to lack of regulation, mortgages are beyond most people's reach and we have a lot of working poor. People who work damn hard for their money and are barely existing.A lot of precious housing is bought up by people investing in the property market.

I agree that people should respect our culture and values and that we should encourage integration.

I don't think Garage is Hitler and is some ways a classic character but it actually feeds into this narrative for him and his followers to be accused as fascists as there a lot of people who wish to debate immigration and it's consequences in a mature non hateful way without being labelled as the National Front. These views were dismissed during the Brexit debate and isn't the same mistake being made?

should we have discussions about immigration levels and what constitutes British values without bringing Hitler into it. I think that may show a paucity of debating capabipity.

Everyone thought Hitler was a figure of fun when he joined politics. Farage went into the jungle to appeal to ‘the common man’, eating kangaroo bollocks, and came third. He said he wasn’t standing in the election. Now he suddenly is.

My daughter’s boyfriend works for a team of accountants and they are all voting reform and trying to encourage him to. He is really shocked. This is in an area of the north with high immigration figures compared to elsewhere and people are falling for lies and propaganda, but from across different backgrounds.

Labour need to bridge the gap appearing, however small it may be dismissed as at first, or this could be a real problem for this country in a decade.

Sorry for the typos!

realisatiom

@cupcaske123

personally I feel a lot of people would think the questions you pose are important.

One thing we certainly have to accept that all the major parties now accept immigration is too high and perhaps radicalisation could have been made some time ago.

Yes, there are genuine questions about supporting the NHS and business through immigration but I think it is important people can discuss immigration as a political issue without being demonized as racist.

we also need to look at the foot cause why people are increasingly becoming concerned about immigration. I think amongst many though in public debate it is rarely articulated there exists the concern that unlimited immigration will have a lasting impact on our culture, democracy, community relations, gender politics and ultimately how we view ourselves as a state.

Multi culturaism falls down when there is a failure to integrate or for immigrant communities to be hostile to a host culture, living parallel lives or being openly critical of aspects of our liberty.

I will give an example: if I were to go to Saudi I would be expected to cover my head and adhere to strict rules pertinent to Islam and Saudi law/culture. We accept this.

However if a Muslim emigrates to France and their child has to remove a hijab as part of uniform policy then there is an uprising with accusations of the French state being 'Islamaphobic'.

It is this fear of other religions and cultures e texting our laws and customs to change in order to advocate then that drives a lot of people rightward politcally. With increased immigration there is ever increasing pressure politically for change to happen in various areas of our society to accommodate an increasing minority with deeply held views on lifestyle that do align with our western secular liberal morality which globally has been shown to be successful.

Great post 👏