I witnessed how fucked up the NHS is

I was in A&E as DH had an ambulance after fainting and knocking himself unconscious almost two weeks ago. Ambulance arrived in 15 mins and we were in a village miles from the city and he was seen within a couple of minutes of arriving and kept on a A&E ward overnight. People, were either discharged or then sent off to specialist wards. So our experience was good.

Many valid points are raised on here, the NHS however is seen as a sacred cow and governments are always blamed and sometimes rightly so but I started my career in the NHS decades ago. It was a mess then and after six years I left
Actual procedures are a mess and not all staff are angels and that gets lost because the NHS is worshipped by many. There is also a mentality that the NHS will sort it out so some just do not care for themselves. I’m not talking about drug addicts either I’m meaning issues like 10% of the NHS budget spent on type 2 diabetes because of rising obesity and my GP surgery putting up the stats of the hundreds of appointments missed every month on the wall.

I didn’t see any drunk people on the last 3-4 visits to A&E. just extremely ill mainly very old people. In two cases, the visit could have been prevented if the GP service had been responsive and had more resources and in one case the Ambulance refused to come, 111 signposted to GP and therefore left a very elderly person to have a stroke. Our system is creating long term disability as it is so poor.

You can’t be black and white like this. People are complex. Some of the people presenting as intoxicated may have been abused, never mind the NHS. If you charge one set of people who ‘hurt themselves’, you have to charge others and, at some point, that becomes very dangerous and faintly ridiculous. Too much sun and got skin cancer? Overweight? Took an overdose? Exercise under the recommended amount? It just doesn’t work to start dishing out fines for seeking health care. Not only does it put people off seeking health care, but it also puts that judgement into another’s hands and ends up moving towards suggesting anyone at all who’s had any implication on their own health should be charged.

Labour will probably get in to power and realise that the NHS is a poison chalice. The public hold it up as something to be protected at all costs but in reality it needs significant restructure of not a complete new healthcare system. But no main party will be able to get the public on board with the latter. And so the cycle continues. We are in chaos but we do have to acknowledge that covid was a disaster for the NHS and waiting lists and trying to bring them down is like swimming against the tide. Plus add in net migration figures and an ageing population with complex health and social care needs, Arghhh!

Any visit to the Royal is eventful and absolutely shocking from my experience anyway, not that aintree or anywhere really is much better at the min but I haven't seen half of the things in Aintree that I have in the Royal no matter what time of day.

I hope you've been seen and got some meds/help. 111 will give you an appointment at a walk in if you tell them there's no gp appointments rather than you just going the walk in and waiting where you'll see a practioner who will tell you to see a GP (don't go to litherland Town Hall if you chance a walk in) but the out of hours GP there usually great or anywhere definitely better to try that. Hope you're well soon

There have been out of pocket costs and you can access better care with additional insurance but nothing like the fear mongering of the US model so I agree with you there. Generations have been so used to free healthcare it would be a huge cultural shift. Having lived in other countries part of the huge problem with successive uk governments for the past 20/30 years is they have privatised with little to no thought of impact (look at state of rail and water now) and there has been no investment in infrastructure and everything has just become a sticking plaster instead of proper policy to improve people’s lives and outcomes. My big fest is that the ship is too big to turn now and that is why in the UK - and particularly in the north people are expected to be poorer than parts of Eastern Europe.

Thanks Lifesd, I do think we need to become more aware of more efficient systems across Europe here in the UK, laying aside our collective morbid obsession regarding the US model. Not that the tabloids will educate the average Joe about such matters. ..
I fear that a large section of the UK public are astonishingly uninformed about fair and interesting alternatives; instead we are nose led by soundbites and knee jerk emotional reactions to growing, countrywide issues.

@Ottika ive had cause to access care for either myself and my family in France, Germany and Australia - all have been far more efficient - nothing of the horrendous waits and poor care I’ve received on the nhs. Out of hours and weekend working is standard for example.

We need to lobby against VAT on school fees @PanicAttax because the tax payer will need to fund £bs in new schools! But lib dem are not going to get in our make a difference are they.

Look at these stats on NHS waiting lists.

There is only 1 party we can vote for...

So what model would you recommend?
Which other European countries have a desirable model that doesn't only benefit the wealthy? (I'm not even going to discuss the US here). I wish there was a solution in sight.

Not a nice thing to have to say but I have noticed that severely anti social and drunk individuals are actually prioritised by the system, no matter how dangerous or uncomfortable this is for anyone else.
Most of the social housing in many areas was given over to those with issues, including ex criminals, drug dealers and frankly dangerous men, and so entire neighbourhoods that used to be diverse and home to low income families are now no go zones with smashed windows and dangerous dogs. I can absolutely believe it when people say that no remaining authority considers the wellbeing of the regular public in such places now.
I've witnessed a group of police watch a gang of young men in a bus station as they smashed a supermarket trolley into a door repeatedly, causing a blockage for people who needed to enter the area. Several pensioners rushed away to avoid harm with no reassurance for the police whatsoever.

There is no sense of safety in many central areas, yet it is hushed into silence because the people causing the issues are 'poor'. Well, so are their long suffering neighbours....

I don't know how we fix this. The tories are unhinged and I will vote to get them out, but I don't trust anyone in this toxic two-political system. Like the NHS, it requires a complete overhaul and proportional representation instead of this botched image of democracy we are labouring under at the moment.

@TheCoralDog i agree with you, the NHS just is not sustainable - the waste and inefficiency is off the scale and people need to accept that it cannot continue to be a free at point of use service anymore. It needs dynamic and dramatic reform but I can’t see any party ready to grasp the nettle on it. It certainly isn’t the envy of the world.

@PanicAttax it is heartbreaking. I’m so sorry. I truly hope you can find some help. Does the child have many years left of school?

Lots of smaller schools running on tight margins will fold. Schools with modest fees that do wonders with kids lacking in confidence.

What a shame for your young relative to have to leave a school where they are happy.
It’s such an ill-thought out scheme.

💐

If there was a drunk tank staffed with medically supervised orderlies for the addicts and drunks, there would be far less chaos.

@Gingernaut It’s hard not to feel angry when people come in escorted by police because they’re drunk and have been fighting. I had to take my Dad into A&E several months ago and there were four police officers waiting with people who, tbh, didn’t seem badly hurt, they were drunk and disorderly, and had been in fights.

I agree that separating loud drunks from the genuinely ill people would be a step in the right direction.

I agree that we are in a mess with the NHS and that it requires a complete restructuring from within.

But just as a balancing data point - here in Wigan, in the north west, had excellent service recently, as have a few family members and friends.

On the negative side, our elderly neighbour with dementia was dealt with despicably by the social care system. He wasn't admitted to care and had to be taken to hospital several times per week as his poor wife couldn't lift him off the living room floor so he had to lie there all night soaked in his own urine. When a carer called the next morning she refused to help as she 'wasn't allowed to'. He had been needing to be admitted to care for over 6 months.
Sadly he passed away last week.

@BeMoreEfficient thanks. It's a hugely stressful time for us all at the moment trying to figure out if we can get any help or if there will be exemptions or if we need a solicitor (or if that is a further waste of money). We've been so happy for the time they've been there and thriving, having it snatched away is heartbreaking.

Ive had to use the NHS a fair few times over the last 10 years and to be fair, apart from one incident which nearly led to me losing my baby (which was more down to the know-it-all newly qualified doctor thinking they knew best when didn’t), every time has been absolutely first class service. I had to go in recently and I was seen early and they were so kind and caring and went out of their way to make the experience as stress free as possible. I do wonder if it varies a lot depending on the hospital and how efficiently it’s run.

Labour's plan to offer overtime paid isn't going to help.

Sorry @Bloom15 that was a long post, nothing to do with your subject matter.

I do hope you’re feeling better. You’ve had good advice regarding obtaining emergency prescriptions etc.

💐

@PanicAttax I’m sorry for your family member and their child. Labour have got this one so wrong.

The people who are going to suffer most from the VAT on school fees are those who’ve scraped the funding together because their child cannot cope in a state school.

I realise not everyone can manage this. Often the people who won’t be able to carry on (funding independent) have children who just can’t attend school; it’s just too frightening for them. I feel so sorry for the kids who have been just about coping because they’ve been sent somewhere with smaller class sizes and a bit more order but will not cope in a state school unless it is very good.

And of course if these children lived in an area where their local school was exceptionally well managed, presumably their parents wouldn’t be trying to scrape the funding together to privately educate in the first place.

Similarly some children could go to any school and they would be fine.

The Etons, Harrows, CLC and Roedeans will not be affected. What a pernicious scheme it is.

We don't have to have an NHS. It’s held up as this amazing amazing thing, but actually, maybe it’s just no longer working.
I’ve received medical care in 2 other countries in the past year. Both experiences were far better than NHS. They had different systems, systems that worked. And yea, maybe you do need to pay something at some point.
My entire family work as medics for NHS, and most think it’s had it’s day now.

Agree I am appalled by the treatment of more elderly patients on the bay I'm currently in. The lady next to me is scared to buzz for help to the loo even though she can't mobilise without support and was prescribed laxatives today 😵‍💫

I've always been a big supporter of the NHS but after living abroad for a while I can't see how it can improve.
I've had to use hospitals in Malaysia here 3 times in the past year - one time for my daughter who had to have surgery on a severe cut to her leg - second time I had to have surgery on my hand as I'd cut it open on a glass . Both times we were in and out in a day and had amazing care and treatment. The bill was hefty but luckily our insurance covered it. I recently had to use A&E as my son had hurt his foot - I took him in at around 1:30pm he was triaged , x rayed and treated in two hours. Insurance didn't cover this and it cost me the equivalent of £45 all in. General GP visits and antibiotics meds etc costs around £20 all in. No appointments necessary - I can generally just walk in. I'd rather pay than have the faff and stress of appointments. I love the NHS and what it originally stood for but I think it's been ran to the ground and not been invested in properly.

I know the NHS is in a mess but your experience sounds ok? You were given urgent treatment straight away. It isn’t their fault that you had no childcare. Couldn’t you have asked a friend to step in? Or had your son dropped at the hospital? You can’t expect them to treat you if you aren’t there.

A lot of staff would not have left for starters.

We could pay of junior doctors with the 2.5 billion Sunak now wants to use to make teens join the army for a year!