Why doesn't anyone have a proper plan for the NHS?

Actually I don’t want them to fight for me. It’s piecemeal and not a solution. They do earn well and I would rather we had an honest conversation about being unable to afford the nhs. We need to accept doctors want more money and are prepared to accept money from insurance scheme health services abroad. It’s that simple. We need to evaluate how to introduce it here. It’s going to take 25 years to reform this behemoth but we must make a start.

Insurance companies can make profits but we could have not for profit organisations. We do have millions of people investing in insurance companies - via pensions. It’s far too easy for people to say profits are bad but millions of people invest in them, as they do other companies.

Oh I agree it’s the funding. Doctors are striking to get fair pay to keep it free at the point of contact. If the elite get their way and it goes full private then doctirs will get a fair pay and better hours and be treated fairly. But they are fighting for everyone and people don’t see that

Invest in re-opening community hospitals, maternity units, carehomes, psych units. Extend gp surgery hours and walk in centres. Acute Hospital only for surgery, emergency care, a&e. Pay staff better, stop ridiculous wastage, claim back oversees patient bills, employ either nhs or private doctors,not a mixture of where they work.

@letyouberight I also work in the NHS in a non clinical role.

I think the NHS will cease to exist in the near future. There are too many problems that require billions to be fixed. Money that no government has.

They have already started to brainwash us into this by reducing national insurance contributions (I know they are not to pay for the NHS, but it's a popular myth that they are.)
I would love an insurance system like the one in Germany, but fear with Brexit and leaning closer to the USA, we'll gett their system - maybe slightly watered down for people with pre existing conditions or of a certain age.

The problem for my area/ trust is an ever increasing population.

Think 3 towns with a 55- 70k population each, plus new developments popping up everywhere. Our hospital has a bed capacity of 520, we have 2 out patients clinics and one urgent care unit to provide health care away from the main hospital.

The hospital is old, parts of it are closed off due to being unsafe. We have plans for a new one, but not enough funds - may reasons incl. miss management and the main building is riddled with asbestos, that wasn't calculated into the original costing.

Then there is the obvious under staffing and luck of consultants, probably due to being in a deprived area.

I'm sure our hospital isn't unique, there must be 100's with similar issues.

I blame successive governments who failed to invest and reform the NHS when it was still salvageable.

I know the staff at my hospital do their best under the circumstances, but in the end, you can't polish a rotting turd.

@GoldenDoor They move abroad for all those things but not a single one is moving to a NHS! Not one. They take the money from insurance systems. The people left here might “support” the NHS but they all want more money. The only way to get money into the system is to use an insurance scheme. Then sort out waste and dreadful productivity.

As an aside. You wouldn’t think it but the best return in terms of earnings on ANY degree is medicine. All grads get jobs. All grads get promotion and all have a very generous pension scheme. Other degree. Have a few who earn well but it very much depends where and what you study. Medicine doesn’t have such issues. IFS research on grad salaries firmly places it as the top earner and way more apply than unis have places for.

The NHS frustrates everyone IMO. It's too big and unwieldy to operate as a national service so the local trusts were invented, but each one needs a board and directors etc, and they all want to set policies over procurement, purchasing and priorities piecemeal.

If any political party seriously proposed shifting to a cross-party coalition approach on healthcare, it would win my vote regardless of any other manifesto pledges and commitments.

Because people believe that people should work in the nhs for free or as some kind of voluntary service. That they should work for less money than they can get one day a week private and be expected to take less money because claps help.

Accept that staff move abroad because they get paid more, don’t have to work overtime unpaid and can book annual leave.

The NHS is shit because secretaries don’t answer phones or let you know stuff that would take 2 secs to sort. That an outpatient clinic I go to has the same amount of staff nurses stood around doing fuck all as clinic rooms which aren’t used. They are very rarely used as chaperones. All they do is walk the notes 2m from the desk to outside the door which the secretary can do. It’s been the Same for the last 5 years. My DH gets so annoyed.

Thats how it would work, yes.

Yep

Wouldn't we then end up with a parallel 2 tier system, if you have a bad tooth and you go to an NHS dentist they will probably say it has to come out (unless it's anything other than a basic filling)
So with health care it'll be a case of, problem with your leg unless it's anything basic we'll have to cut your leg off, well perhaps not that bad but you will get a better and more sophisticated form of healthcare if you pay for it compared to those who only have the free option?

In all fairness I also pay for private dental care. It is better than my old NHS dentist and it is closer to where I live now. I pay a set sum each month for a set number of visits to the dentist and hygienist each year. I could see something similar happening with healthcare. Personally I would not be opposed to that.

Maybe, then again I don't resent paying for private dental work and I am far from well off. The reason I pay privately is that I get better treatment than I do if I was limited to NHS dentistry.
Presumably the same would happen with healthcare?

it'll never be fixed because people are too stupid to realise it isn’t just about funding

@Octavia64 well said.

And when it comes to changing/improving the NHS where would you start?
I would vote for it being a joint cross party decision- it’s not something that can be trusted to party politics

I think it would be accurate to say that, if taking part in an anonymous poll, and asked if they would like to pay a fee to access treatment so that others could access it for free the majority would say a very firm no

Ooh yes, let’s call it something like “income tax” perhaps?

Pray tell me whereabouts did I state that all accidents and illnesses are the result of not taking proper care of your own health?

I'm not victim blaming, you are failing to read properly😙

Any reform should involve a lot of lay offs. The NHS has so many well paid pointless admin roles that bring nothing to it.

I also think a similar system to the NHS Dental model should be applied in some way. Banded pricing.

Can you explain why this would be cheaper then funding the NHS properly by increasing taxation?

Why can't we pay for the NHS on a means tested percentage basis, with rich people paying a higher percentage, down to some people paying nothing?

I'm not rich but I’m reasonably comfortable so I offered to pay for mine since I get all my prescriptions free because I’m prescribed thyroxine. I was told the paperwork involved made it not worth it.