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Politics

So shocked and grieved to hear about Alexei Navalny's death.

56 replies

MsAmerica · 18/02/2024 23:46

I think this the the most upset I've ever been about anything comparable internationally. I just can't believe it. Even though there's really nothing to be surprised about, since Putin has been wanting him dead for years.

In case anyone is interested, there's the documentary:

Navalny
https://edition.cnn.com/shows/navalny-cnn-film

'Navalny': How to watch the Oscar-winning documentary about the late Putin critic
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2024/02/16/alexei-navalny-documentary-watch/72627657007/

Navalny: The documentary that’s become even more essential following the activist’s death
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/alexei-navalny-death-russia-documentary-b2497547.html

OP posts:
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Acapulco12 · 15/03/2024 14:18

MsAmerica · 12/03/2024 01:22

The west isn't trying t "infiltrate" Russia's political system. The west is trying to support attempts toward democracy in any authoritarian system.

However, Russia is trying to undermine western countries via disinformation and such.

I agree with this.

MsAmerica · 12/03/2024 01:24

dustcollective · 19/02/2024 13:25

I'm also worried Zelenskyy will be next. Putin would obviously poison him if he could get access, has probably tried and failed to assassinate him and seems emboldened by his recent "successes". Zelensky travels everywhere and can't be kept safe 100%.

Congress needs to sort itself out and get that funding to Ukraine.

I've been thinking that if anyone would have prodded me to bet, I was sure that Navalny would outlive Zelensky.

:(

OP posts:
MsAmerica · 12/03/2024 01:22

dubsie · 25/02/2024 11:08

If the west tries to infiltrate Russian political system and install leaders those who are involved will be hunted down and removed.

This man is a western stooge and our attempts to remove Putin have failed. We may not like Putin but the reality is it's none of our business.

We are happy to take Russian money and oil but not so keen to accept their politics. Double standards and screams of hypocrisy...what gives us the right to demand democracy to a foreign state .... nothing ...

I'm afraid there's plenty of really nasty leaders out there ..more bad than good to be honest and I find myself just accepting that and simply expecting that our own elected government simply has nothing to do with them ...and to behave like a democracy.... unfortunately neither is true

The west isn't trying t "infiltrate" Russia's political system. The west is trying to support attempts toward democracy in any authoritarian system.

However, Russia is trying to undermine western countries via disinformation and such.

OP posts:
ComingUpTrumps · 05/03/2024 09:38

dubsie · 05/03/2024 08:47

When an opposition leader received the financial backing from foreign interests....that's what was happening. The same way Russia meddles with our democracy...it's not acceptable.

We've been at war with Russia for longer than you think and results are impacting all of us.

My idea of a compromise is to draw the line on occupied territories and get Russia to accept NATO expansion....do you see that actually strengthens the Ukraine and allows Russia to stop the war without looking like it's lost

The war stops completely no border clashes and in the end Putin will fail anyway...
His dreams are doomed regardless it will just take longer than a war.

We really should turn our focus to strengthening our own beliefs and values wipe out the idea that we are better off without NATO

When an opposition leader received the financial backing from foreign interests....that's what was happening. The same way Russia meddles with our democracy...it's not acceptable.

I understand this and can see where you’re coming from, because Navalny himself said on his Instagram account that he received funding from a Russian businessman. He is transparent about this on his instagram and names the businessman and how much he has given him in funding whilst he was in Germany. So yes, I accept that Navalny was receiving financial backing from a Russian businessman based abroad who supported what he was trying to do. This funding was used to pay for things like the fees for his hospital treatment in Germany after he was poisoned, for instance.

However, Navalny’s ultimate goal was to create a democratic society in Russia that had free and open elections and that was free from corruption. I think that this is a very important and laudable goal because this will help all of Russia’s citizens and so it’s a very positive thing to try to achieve.

Conversely, Russia meddling in our democracy (as you mention here) is unacceptable because, ultimately, their goal is to do that to undermine democracy, create division and use that to benefit themselves and increase their power. Given this, I don’t think it’s appropriate to compare what Navalny was trying to do in Russia with what Russia is trying to do in other countries.

Also, a separate point, and I still need to learn much more about this to try and understand it more, but I don’t think Russia will ever accept NATO expansion - not while Putin is in power. I think that’s one of the reasons why Putin started this war with Ukraine.

dubsie · 05/03/2024 08:47

When an opposition leader received the financial backing from foreign interests....that's what was happening. The same way Russia meddles with our democracy...it's not acceptable.

We've been at war with Russia for longer than you think and results are impacting all of us.

My idea of a compromise is to draw the line on occupied territories and get Russia to accept NATO expansion....do you see that actually strengthens the Ukraine and allows Russia to stop the war without looking like it's lost

The war stops completely no border clashes and in the end Putin will fail anyway...
His dreams are doomed regardless it will just take longer than a war.

We really should turn our focus to strengthening our own beliefs and values wipe out the idea that we are better off without NATO

Acapulco12 · 04/03/2024 11:13

dubsie · 04/03/2024 10:56

Stop pretending this man was an angel, he's an American stooge and that's why he was killed. Stop meddling in foreign affairs and this will stop happening.

We are pushing ourselves into a larger conflict and that is something that should be avoided at all costs.

It's time to accept the Ukraine must give up territory and we must stop supporting this war and move towards a peaceful compromise.

We must prepare ourselves for the reality. Trump is going to be the next president and that for sure will end the support for the Ukraine and NATO....it's time to face the reality.

I completely disagree that he was an ‘American stooge’. Yes, America (Biden’s govnerment) supported his actions, but he and his supporters acted independently and was not ordered by America to do anything. Also, he has criticised the decisions made by Trump during his presidency on many occasions. Can you please explain why you think he was an American stooge?

I agree he was ‘no angel’ in terms of some of the views he held, but that’s absolutely not why he was killed.

Also, what sort of peaceful compromise do you suggest moving towards for the war in Ukraine?

dubsie · 04/03/2024 10:56

Stop pretending this man was an angel, he's an American stooge and that's why he was killed. Stop meddling in foreign affairs and this will stop happening.

We are pushing ourselves into a larger conflict and that is something that should be avoided at all costs.

It's time to accept the Ukraine must give up territory and we must stop supporting this war and move towards a peaceful compromise.

We must prepare ourselves for the reality. Trump is going to be the next president and that for sure will end the support for the Ukraine and NATO....it's time to face the reality.

Acapulco12 · 29/02/2024 01:49

decionsdecisions62 · 20/02/2024 05:41

What I'm sad about here is that someone has been murdered by the state for expressing their opinion. The significance of that cannot be ignored.

Everyone here is getting wrapped up in the who and not the what.

Me too

Acapulco12 · 29/02/2024 01:47

Hermittrismegistus · 20/02/2024 01:37

It's almost as though those criticising him believe he should only have been honoured if he was perfect. Ok he didn't always behave perfectly but his level of bravery in seeking a freer country and being prepared to die for it, supersedes all of this

Freer country for which people though?

My family included those that this man wanted to exterminate , never will I ever think such a man should be honored.

JFC. MN has gone utterly bonkers.

I have read a lot about Navalny’s views on immigration, and I accept that they are unpleasant and not acceptable.

However, we should remember that Russian society is very, very different to European and US society, and their cultural beliefs are different. Therefore, Navalny’s views will be different to ours, and we might not ever be able to accept or agree with them.

Also, it’s important to understand that Navalny was a political figure who eventually hoped to get Russian people’s votes and to win elections. To do this, of course he’d have to appeal to people, and presumably lots of these people share these views he mentions - even though we don’t like those views and we find them unacceptable.

I’m not at all trying to justify or defend his views by saying this. I’m just pointing out that some of (if not many of) the people whose votes he would want to get as an aspiring political candidate would have these views and he would want to be able to connect with them.

TizerorFizz · 26/02/2024 07:58

We don’t want Russian money. We gave Russians opportunities to invest if they wanted to. Now we don’t want their investment. We would rather not have their gas either. We are a democracy though - definitely. That’s not the same as disliking what elected members do! Russia is stuck with Putin and the Russian psyche is to think everyone is against them and the majority support Putin who they see as strong and acting in their interests.

dubsie · 25/02/2024 11:08

If the west tries to infiltrate Russian political system and install leaders those who are involved will be hunted down and removed.

This man is a western stooge and our attempts to remove Putin have failed. We may not like Putin but the reality is it's none of our business.

We are happy to take Russian money and oil but not so keen to accept their politics. Double standards and screams of hypocrisy...what gives us the right to demand democracy to a foreign state .... nothing ...

I'm afraid there's plenty of really nasty leaders out there ..more bad than good to be honest and I find myself just accepting that and simply expecting that our own elected government simply has nothing to do with them ...and to behave like a democracy.... unfortunately neither is true

Saltandpeppero · 20/02/2024 11:35

StarbucksSmarterSister · 20/02/2024 00:56

Interestingly, they stripped him of it two years ago and then reinstated it.

Ah did they!

StarbucksSmarterSister · 20/02/2024 11:30

decionsdecisions62 · 20/02/2024 05:41

What I'm sad about here is that someone has been murdered by the state for expressing their opinion. The significance of that cannot be ignored.

Everyone here is getting wrapped up in the who and not the what.

Yes. Nobody on here has said they agree with all of his views.

WulfWuman · 20/02/2024 08:51

He was killed because he lost the power struggle with putin.

youmustrememberthis · 20/02/2024 06:47

decionsdecisions62 · 20/02/2024 05:41

What I'm sad about here is that someone has been murdered by the state for expressing their opinion. The significance of that cannot be ignored.

Everyone here is getting wrapped up in the who and not the what.

Agreed

decionsdecisions62 · 20/02/2024 05:41

What I'm sad about here is that someone has been murdered by the state for expressing their opinion. The significance of that cannot be ignored.

Everyone here is getting wrapped up in the who and not the what.

Hermittrismegistus · 20/02/2024 02:10

I'm leaving this thread. I knew MN had a racism problem but to see people honour and applauded a racist that would happily have exterminated (murdered) my family just blows my mind.

youmustrememberthis · 20/02/2024 02:02

@Hermittrismegistus but then you did decide to reply 😂

I'm not ignoring that there have been incidents of behaviour / comments which are not acceptable but I also think he did not deserve to be murdered which it is likely he was. By 'cancelling' him you might as well say he deserved what he got, which is very wrong in my opinion.

Also, Nalvany actually volunteered to go back to Russia after recovering from being poisoned and I think objectively that's very brave. More brave then most criticising him.

In addition, I think we should acknowledge that Putin considered Nalvany had such an impact or was going to be such a 'problem' he needed to be removed that means by default things potentially could have changed.

Hermittrismegistus · 20/02/2024 01:56

StarbucksSmarterSister · 20/02/2024 01:50

Apparently it's only a bad thing to murder him if he was a good guy.

Nobody should be bothered if Putin poisons, imprisons and then eventually murders somebody if they're not such a great person themselves.

Bonkers indeed.

Well, that's a complete work of fiction on your part isn't it!

Hermittrismegistus · 20/02/2024 01:55

youmustrememberthis · 20/02/2024 01:46

@Hermittrismegistus what do you think of Putin then? Are you happy with him in power, do you believe he's the better of the two?

I don't think I'll be dignifying your question with a response.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 20/02/2024 01:50

Apparently it's only a bad thing to murder him if he was a good guy.

Nobody should be bothered if Putin poisons, imprisons and then eventually murders somebody if they're not such a great person themselves.

Bonkers indeed.

youmustrememberthis · 20/02/2024 01:46

@Hermittrismegistus what do you think of Putin then? Are you happy with him in power, do you believe he's the better of the two?

Hermittrismegistus · 20/02/2024 01:37

It's almost as though those criticising him believe he should only have been honoured if he was perfect. Ok he didn't always behave perfectly but his level of bravery in seeking a freer country and being prepared to die for it, supersedes all of this

Freer country for which people though?

My family included those that this man wanted to exterminate , never will I ever think such a man should be honored.

JFC. MN has gone utterly bonkers.

youmustrememberthis · 20/02/2024 01:33

Even if he wasn't a perfect character, he took a stand against an incredibly evil dictator (he even went back to Russia having already been poisoned once) and I think because of that, he should be respected and honoured for the extent of the bravery of him and his family.

It's almost as though those criticising him believe he should only have been honoured if he was perfect. Ok he didn't always behave perfectly but his level of bravery in seeking a freer country and being prepared to die for it, supersedes all of this.

Hermittrismegistus · 20/02/2024 01:22

* Not strange at all*

Of course it is. You're actually talking as Navalny was in any way shape or form a good person.

The only difference between him and Putin is that Putin has power.

What do you think a white nationalist that has called for the extermination of certain people would do if he actually had power?

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