Is Keir Starmer too boring to be prime minister?

Labour will face the same issues. They know it hence throwing out the offshore processing line over Christmas. It won’t resolve it but they probably can’t within their scope.

As for divergence I’ll take Kemi speaking up for women over Duffield cast out and adherence to gender or else

Yes, that is a good point @NoWordForFluffy - I do not know how you intend to vote and made my remarks based on an assumption - based on how conversations often go!

So I retract the 'why you think' and replace with 'why some think'.

I live in a UK country with a Labour government whose leader stated ages ago that trans women are women and trans men are men.

My life has changed not one jot so far as a result of that statement.

The disagreements in the Tory party are fundamental and deep.

Yes Labour will have policy debates, as they did under Blair - remember Corbyn's lot were always popping up then too. But small factions are not the issue.

Currently the Tories are so ideologically split. They threw off a lot of moderates at the last election but that has made their party much less appealing electorally. They do not know whether to go centre-right, one-nation or to go full Braverman. They can't do both at the same time.

Brexit was a useful sticking plaster to keep the two sides together but it was always discussed pre-2016 that if/once the referendum went their way, the splits would worsen not improve.

Although sadly for us the one thing they do go authoritarian on is gender

So not as much challenge for sex based rights

What I find so hard to understand is why those on the left assume that a refusal to vote for Labour means that it's a vote for the Tories.

I'm not voting for either actually. Or LDs or Green.

Labour will fight, they’ve just been out of power so long it hasn’t been as relevant.

Gaza, picket lines both recent, off shore processing now a suggestion. Not all will have same views on that. There will be more

What I find so hard to understand, is why you think the Tories - who have legislated to allow this situation to happen - are the answer in future?

The main issue in their party is they are completely split now. They do not know what they want to do about the HRA, about the ECHR, about anything really. They have fudged this issue for a long time, and been very disingenuous about their 'plans' which have all resulted in nothing.

IMO they are happy to run down the clock on issues like this because they can't get a coherent plan through the parliamentary party.

It would help the Tories if their parliamentary party could agree with each other. The different factions are fighting like rats in a sack and airing their dirty linen in public. What’s that saying? Never interfere with an enemy while he’s in the process of destroying himself.

I’m not - but as you said, it’s a very blue place so if they field a “decent” candidate anyone else would struggle. The Labour candidate selected recently has been doing a lot of campaigning and seems very credible.

I laughed at the bluntness so at least there’s that

The caring vibe won’t last long when you have various groups demanding more and no extra funding. Caring and saying no together.. maybe people will be as forgiving as on this thread about saying nothing at all

To add to my last post - the desire amongst the electorate for a GE has been very strong for some time. This is never a good sign for an incumbent government.

I think there is truth in this that large parts of the electorate feel very strongly: It is an illustration of how low the bar is currently set that nothing is an improvement.

The conundrum for the Tories is do they try to rescue any of their brand (competence, economic stability, tough on crime etc.) or do they just try to drag Labour's relatve vote share down? And how do they appeal to both red and blue wall seats now Brexit is 'done' and has been underwhelming in the eyes of many who voted for it?

Ha at this. He just has to show he cares..

I’m glad to see the expectations get bumped down from the unrealistic but this is what people are striving for, no change bar soothing words.

And anyway cares about what? Not sex based rights for women, no thanks

Good Lord, we are fucked.

It would be better than the lies that have been told by PMs at PMQs for the past few years.
It is an illustration of how low the bar is currently set that nothing is an improvement.

I am not happy with things staying the same. I want changes and expect any non-Tory party to set some changes out in their manifesto. I know we have financial problems, but there is much that can be done by reprioritisation and clarity, by not being a party that is riven with internal disagreement.

This line of 'attack' against Labour (that Starmer can't/won't make big changes) is extremely weak when we have watched the Tories make things consistently worse. Every voter knows 'modest improvement' is better than 'continued destruction'.

There is no need for me to get into it in detail because we can all see with our eyes what has happened outside our windows. To deny the electorate's lived reality never works.

Ah, rape services? Like this one in Brighton?

Under Labour, I imagine there will be far more Sarahs, unfortunately.

So nothing needs to changes so long as you feel like he cares? He can cry during PMQs, job done.

Say nothing - do nothing. Brave New World.

Maintaining what is left of Great Britain would be an improvement on trying to run it into the ground at every opportunity, yes.

The simple presence of someone who cares a bit about people as PM will make a significant difference to morale.

He’s dull yes but not corrupt, weak or a liar which I think are far worse.

when I first took an interest in politics -
it was John Major’s era- everyone was pretty boring. But in the main the individuals had pretty high standards of integrity
and was about politics not culture wars. Even the tories seemed half decent back then. I long for the return of boring politics. Though back then it was mostly middle aged men, obviously having more diverse types is a step forward.

He doesn’t have to say anything at all atm, something about having ideas stolen so it’s fine

It’s his best yet - nothing

He’ll have to stump up eventually and pull the splinters out

Yeah, you can really see the tone that Labour supporters adopt when people won't toe the line. It reeks.

So Starmer doesn't even have to do anything - and you are good with that? How easy his job will be when party members expect so little.