If there was a GE today who would you vote for?

And as a result, Ed Milliband DIDN'T "say whatever complete bullshit he had to to get elected" which was your original claim. You seem to think that because you can suggest REASONS why he didn't, that somehow exhonerates your claim from being manifestly wrong.

Your suggestion doesn't even make sense. If ALL political parties simply did WHATEVER they had to do to get elected, then all their manifestos would be exactly the same. It would simply be a question of finding out what most of the public already think and already want, and reflecting it.

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Such as everyone guaranteeing the triple lock on pensions which is unaffordable?

Or all parties promising to prevent migrants across the channel? Which is pretty much impossible.

No, such as ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING, ALWAYS.

@jgw1

Surely we don't need 80 new hospitals because Boris got 40 built and there is £350million extra a week for the NHS?

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Boris took the whole politician lying thing to a new level. Previously politicians such as Reece Mogg used their words very cleverly so as to not actually lie. However Boris took the view that voters think all politicians lie so what the hell let's go big on lying and not even attempt to cover yourself with clever words.

To be fair it worked quite well with a lot of voters.

@MadderthanMorris

Bollox. My comment came after highlighting the Brexit fiasco. Ed Milliband was pressured in 2015 to offer a referendum on exiting the EU to match the Tories' promise. Labour weren't unaware of the political pressure - they had the immigration mug and all that crap to try and capture some of the bigot vote themselves. But he refused to do so, because it was obviously a stupid idea that would wreck the economy and deliver no particular benefit.

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Even David Cameron thought the Brexit referendum was a stupid idea except firstly he only agreed to it in order to shut up the anti EU MPs in his party, secondly he feared losing more Tory defections to UKIP and thirdly he thought it was a fairly safe bet because surely no one would be dumb enough to actually vote Leave.

He got it wrong which is why he then quit or in his supposed words " if they think I'm going to stick around to clear up this shit (actually his shit) then they are wrong ".

Ed Milliband on the other hand didn't have the same level of internal dissent on EU membership.

@Justbetweenus

"And why did the US do so much better than the UK & Europe? The US borrowed to invest for future growth. Austerity was a political choice, not the only choice."

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Because the US economy has a higher degree of liberalisation and lower social spending that would be politically unacceptable in the UK or Europe.

@MadderthanMorris

Your suggestion doesn't even make sense. If ALL political parties simply did WHATEVER they had to do to get elected, then all their manifestos would be exactly the same. It would simply be a question of finding out what most of the public already think and already want, and reflecting it.

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Such as everyone guaranteeing the triple lock on pensions which is unaffordable?

Or all parties promising to prevent migrants across the channel? Which is pretty much impossible.

On other topics the country is divided such as Brexit, so you have Labour and LibDems chasing the remain voters and the Tories chasing the leave voters (which is a bit more difficult because very few will now admit to it).

Or on taxation- when only 50% of income earners pay income tax do you target those not paying by saying I'll increase Government spending by increasing income taxes or do you target those who pay income tax by as you won't increase it?

In 2010 the UK was struggling to keep its credit rating on Government debt and the only way to do was cutting spending or increasing taxes.

If the credit rating was cut then interest rates would have risen making the problem even worse.

Secondly there was minimal lending going on by banks to businesses because they had been burnt by bad debt. If the Government piled in borrowing more money then that would have crowded out what minimal lending was going on for businesses.

Economic theory has moved on from 1930s Keynes.

And why did the US do so much better than the UK & Europe? The US borrowed to invest for future growth. Austerity was a political choice, not the only choice.

I too am looking for a party which pledges to support and uphold women's, children's and LGB rights. I will be voting on this single issue as it is far too dangerous to consider anything else.

I fear for girls and women under the leadership of parties who clearly hate females and won’t protect our rights. The Tories aren’t great either, but at least they haven’t completely sealed the deal to sell us down the river.

its like when someone asks eg was you at gchq today and you could correctly say i was not at gchq,

because i was in room 2 building x at gchq, would be a proper answer, but because the way the person asked the question, i could say i was not there and they say your lieing ect

hopefully my answer makes sense

Ever so slightly off topic but just want to say how much better this thread is now with some healthy debate.
Interesting and informative to read both sides without the name calling and insults.

Yes - I'm talking to you OP.

that was from one of the oxford university tutorials about using words and then first deconstructing what we mean by using certain words before we then use those words for an analysis ect

people tend to say they thought x was lieing etc, but unless you use a dictionary definition of it and apply it to the x context then as the devil is in the details you cannot accurately say its a lie

You dont know what a lie is?

Is it something like a woman?

You dont know what a lie is?

ok

They are all monsters.

Ideally, I'd like to vote LD. However, seeing them frolicking in the sea at their conference, I just thought: you lazy fucks. There are mega problems to be fixed. Many people work 7 days a week. My dh does, my db does.

I will probably vote conservative. Even though I don't want to, my dh business may get sold and labour will tax the fuck out of us for it. As I said, he works 7 days a week, and evenings, and we are entitled to the money from the sale. In my opinion anyway. We've made big, big sacrifices and we deserve the reward.

Basic economics will tell you that you do not solve a financial crisis caused by high levels of debt (Government, banking, corporate and consumer debt) by borrowing more money and increasing debt.

You do if that debt is virtually free due to interest rates barely above 0%, and it will allow you to make the investment necessary to return the economy to growth.

But no, you must be right. That's why austerity was such a roaring success.

Bollox. My comment came after highlighting the Brexit fiasco. Ed Milliband was pressured in 2015 to offer a referendum on exiting the EU to match the Tories' promise. Labour weren't unaware of the political pressure - they had the immigration mug and all that crap to try and capture some of the bigot vote themselves. But he refused to do so, because it was obviously a stupid idea that would wreck the economy and deliver no particular benefit.

Your suggestion doesn't even make sense. If ALL political parties simply did WHATEVER they had to do to get elected, then all their manifestos would be exactly the same. It would simply be a question of finding out what most of the public already think and already want, and reflecting it.

firstly how do you define a lie ? then did what johnson say specifically match the requirements for what he said to be considered a lie ?

debatable, we dont have to be in the eu, if all the main laws, policies etc match up with the eu rules etc then its all but the name so to speak

obviously i could be competely wrong with my analysis

whats your perspectives ?

It is very clear that Johnson lied to Parliament and Sunak was sat next to him cheering him on.
Sunak has continued lying just the other morning he was stating that he was honest, and then proceeded to make up a proposal about a meat tax to then scrap.

@Mountaineer0009 , that’s not going to happen.

thats the thing the devil is in the details its more how they interpret their words and how the public interpret the words etc

Not Starmer then.

He can’t give a straight answer on the EU or gender shite

I'd settle for a Prime Minister not lying all the time to be honest.