Rishi Sunak is working on tough new anti-strike laws

@MarshaBradyo thanks

@Alexandra2001

Hey, if it makes you happy, as it's clear you'll never agree otherwise, of course every role is critical... I mean:

1. of course a hospital can't open if the Costa that everyone get their coffee from is on strike...
2. of course a power plant can't operate if the cleaning company that keeps the admin block clean is on strike...
3. of course a train can't run if the news agent that sells papers to the commuters isn't open as the workers are on strike...
4. of course a law court can't function if the company it uses to shred its confidential waste is on strike...
5. of course a hospital can't function if their scanner is broken and the IT provider is on strike...

... of course they can! They're either not business critical or they're business critical but there's ways to mitigate.

Gees, I'd hate to take a look any any business continuity plan you develop, it'd run to 1000s of pages if every role, function, and activity of an organisation is business critical....! 🤦‍♀️

@ExpectMore This is where you lack any sort of logic... so lets look at your "not all jobs are critical..." statement...

How does hospital work if a scanner is faulty, internet down, no couriers for the vast amount of supplies they need? ... we saw in the pandemic how seemingly unconnected industries that shut down had huge knock on effects for health and food production... e.g the shortages of Co2.

Everyone of your "isolated" critical sectors relies on a whole host of supplementary sectors in order to function... once you get your head around this, you'll see how silly your proposals actually are...

...then there is the damage to industrial relations, even you must see that an unhappy disgruntled workforce aren't going to be particularly productive.

However, i agree, as the NHS can't attract enough staff, we need to give them an above CPI wage rise.

Got there in the end :)

I don't see why money is seen as the silver bullet solution
I don't believe I said or implied that it was just about money, but ultimately if your job doesn't pay you enough to afford the basics of life then money, or specifically the lack of money, becomes very significant
Money may not be a sufficient condition for a good life but it certainly is a necessary condition!

Good posts generally but agree. As someone who is used to a sector that contracts as demand falls in recessions (of which there have a been a couple) it’s basic.

But also agree with other points for non private sector.

I don't see why money is seen as the silver bullet solution. It isn't. It's a well established fact that there's no strong correlation between salary and productivity or motivation.

For example, refer to this study (by a repeatable body):

hbr.org/2013/04/does-money-really-affect-motiv

If you're interested in further research, there are a series of references in "Good to Great" by Jim Collins which reinforce the point.

For me it's about:
A) Protecting Service Users - by banning strikes
B) Protecting employees of service providers - by utilising mechanisms such as recommendations of pay review bodies (and the fact that the market will always move to its equilibrium point)
C) ensuring (for the case of publicly funded bodies), monies from the public purse is (for want of a better description) not squandered through appropriate effective management and coordination

There clearly needs to be give and take which isn't presently happening. Demands for more pay, protected jobs, refusal to modernise are just ludicrous (how can anyone ever think it's reasonable to demand to keep doing jobs like they've always been done, with no threat of redundancy even if the job isn't required, and getting paid even more?').

No, not all jobs are critical (no matter how "important" we think they are nor how "important" those doing them think they are).

I think once you've wrapped your head around not all jobs being critical you'll see the way forward.

Of course their terms are set by the government against the aims that our elected MPs set out on our behalf. Eg it might be higher than CPI raises to make the sector more attractive, lower if there's too many staff and need to reduce numbers through attrition... they're always going to need terms of reference set against which they consider what's "fair". That's not an issue and should be fairly obvious when you think about it (it's why just setting all raises equal to a particular Indix misses the point)

I'm not saying that workers don't need protected, they do and for example I believe an independent pay review body is a possible solution

Impossible as terms of reference are set by Govt...

I just fundamentally don't agree with those that provide critical services being able to strike - there's other means to have your voice heard that doesn't affect critical service users

All jobs are critical, by your own measure, you would not only inc blue light services but food production, distribution and sales... couriers... waste collection... Comms & IT (my sector)

Almost everyone does a job that is either essential or vital to a critical service.

Pay & condition review bodies for everyone? you 'd create a monster.

@ExpectMore Its not me that suggested changes to contracts/ T&C's ... it was you...

I wouldn't worry about that, there's well known and understood mechanisms for changing terms of contracts

Any new legislation has to go through the commons, the house of lords and will doubtless be subject to legal challenge inc the ECHR.

Will not happen this side of a GE, so little help to the current situation.

I can see that if critical workers go on strike this is extremely problematic
But a bigger problem is how to attract people into these roles when they are badly paid and also can inflict a good deal of trauma and stress upon the person doing the job
What can we do about the fact that fewer and fewer of us are willing to do these essential but stressful and badly paid jobs?
We all want an ambulance to rescue us if we have an accident but few of us want to deal with the trauma of being a first responder
We all want to eat meat but a few of us want to do the grizzly work of an abattoir worker
We all want fresh fruit and veg but none of us want to go in the fields and pick it because it's difficult unpleasant and badly paid work

I think I largely agree that the issues are caused by poor management, per my previous post that the NHS doesn't need more money, it just needs to be better organised and managed.

I'm not saying that workers don't need protected, they do and for example I believe an independent pay review body is a possible solution.

I just fundamentally don't agree with those that provide critical services being able to strike - there's other means to have your voice heard that doesn't affect critical service users

There's a difference between changing T&Cs and changing the law: all contracts of employment will require employees to work in accordance of the law and the contract of work can't over-rule it.

It's no different to for example the pension age being aged, maternity rights being changed, NI rates being changed... they're not governed by the contract, and people will have joined with a set expectation, but have been changed by a result of changes in the law

So we just accept that we're paid an absolute pittance to make life or death decisions every day?

Where has the goodwill gone?

The same people banging pots and pans every week are now abusing us down the phone because we just don't have the ambulances or the staff to send out on the response times that people need and deserve.

It's absolutely soul destroying to tell an elderly lady who's husband is stuck on the floor after a fall that we could be upwards of 12 hours. And that there's nothing else we could possibly do.

It's even worse to listen to someone screaming please get here quick and see that there is absolutely no one available.

There was a para from LAS (I think) on LBS news the other day. He was the ONLY para on shift for an area of more than one million people. It's NOT safe.

Nobody who hasn't ever been in that situation has a right to say how much we should earn.

And after a 12 hour shift of that I'll come home to a freezing cold house because I just can't afford to put any more on the gas.

This, all of this, thank you for laying it all out 🙏🧡

Exactly. The rhetoric about removing rights (right to protest, strike, employment rights etc) has been espoused for years by the same politicians and 'elite' as were pushing Brexit. Leaving the EU meant that the EU wouldn't be able to stand up for those rights on our behalf...it shunted a huge power balance and it's to our shame as country that people still don't get this.

Haven't yet heard of German French Govts removing worker rights? or by the 'West do you mean America?

Brexit removes the ECJ option, atm most notable on sewage into rivers, the new office of environmental protection has no really power, the EA are toothless and its far cheaper for a water company to pump sewage into a water way than it is to fix the problem.

Previously the UK could be taken to the ECJ and punitive fines imposed, now the UK marks its own homework.

Nothing to do with it, this is the general direction of the whole west.

@ExpectMore I m well aware of the ACAS process and their advice....but i think you need to read your link a little better..

If there is a trade union
If your employer imposes a contract change after failing to reach agreement with a trade union, the union might consider:

taking industrial action

Can you really not see the problem with your ideas....

The unions and Govt can't agree a wage rise, how on earth do you think a huge change in T&C's will go down?

@Alexandra2001

Yes, on a number of occasions, it's fairly common practice.

There's a useful article on it here if you'd like to learn more:

www.acas.org.uk/changing-an-employment-contract/advice-for-employees/if-your-employer-introduces-a-contract-change-without-your-agreement

*Thank you Quveas - I was about to say something similar but more sweary! You have stopped me from showing myself up.

This vile, corrupt cabal is at the beck and call of big business. None of them has ever had a job - they've gone from private schools to university to internships to politics or jobs in mummy's/daddy's business and then to politics. It's just a gravy train for them and hey intend to ride it for as long as possible.

The people who heated their stables with public money will allow old people to freeze to death and children to go hungry.

We need a general election now! (Actually, we probably need a revolution - the whole system needs to be updated. There's no way that Johnson should have been able to just ignore the "gentlemen's agreements" that seem to for a lot of parliamentary "law".)*

@Emotionalsupportviper I think I love you! 😅👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I find Peter's statement to be a good factual view of the current situation, and I find hyperbole annoying. None here though.

@ExpectMore What is your work?

Workers are striking because of extremely poor management of workers. It's easy to blame workers but poor morale (staff vacancies as an example) is due to management. Strikes are the result of failure of management/government. The rail strike is an example- transport minster under Boris refused to engage in talks. That has only recently changed.

Nurses & the RCN always NOT militant workers, they have been treated badly for years and Covid & cost of living has been the trigger.

When Hunt was chairman of the Health committee he understood the need for a longterplan for workers. Everyone knows we were heading towards this crisis due to high increases of UK population and aging population.

The government has caused the high levels of inflation due to their economic mismanagement. A small minority of the population (Conservative members) voted for Truss who created massive debt which has fueled the UKs high level of inflation.

The poor morale and staff vacancies have been well known by the Government for years - they could have done something to stop situation years ago. Anyone who believes the government wasn't aware is extremely naive.

What are they? simplistic statement, typical of MN.....

Have you ever had a contract changed when one party didn't want it?

Might lead to even more strikes...... as reported in the Telegraph yesterday, the Govt has accepted that trying to introduce this would damage industrial relations....

@Alexandra2001

You would also have the issue that folk joined these services knowing they could strike... so they have a contract... how would you change that? as the workers certainly wouldn't agree...

I wouldn't worry about that, there's well known and understood mechanisms for changing terms of contracts

Typical MN hyperbole, extrapolation, assumption, and exaggeration... try to stick to the facts and you'll have a more meaningful conversation