The country surely has to be ready for Labour now??

@carefullycourageous
Yeah, no

This is the kind of dumb, faux offhand Twitterish tone that has turned a lot of voters away from the left

Starmer is intelligent and concerned but lacks doorstep credibility in my opinion. Labour have a history of fighting amongst themselves aided by some left wing journalists. I want the Tories out but I despair of the voters once they have been given a few handouts by Truss. And in my constituency Labour are nowhere. The only alternative is Lib Dem (who on past behaviour might well prop up the Tories in coalition whatever they say now) or the Greens who have no hope outside of Brighton. I see the BBC is being pilloried by Tory supporters for satirising Johnson. I thought he was well beyond satire. The worst PM since Eden.

You keep referencing Corbyn's manifesto which was published during the GE campaign. They are not going to publish their GE manifesto 2 years before the GE are they.?! Especially since Tories steal their policies eg windfall tax.

Indeed, I made that point. I know policy work is going on but at a level up from that labour aren't communicating strong, clear policies. If they are keeping their powder dry I think that's gone on too long and makes them look weak.

The windfall tax is a good example. It was the only smart move so Labour should have been massively pushing for it: every PMQ about a windfall tax, every shadow minister willing to do any TV spot and immediately bringing it up, shadow ministers writing to local papers. The Tories were always likely to u-turn but it could have been played as them caving to labour pressure.

If you really think Labour are communicating well, listening to voters and have capable shadow ministers then why aren't they making more progress against such an absolute mess of a government?

@pastabest Why do you say you don’t think Labour are ready?

Rent - a - gob Rayner as deputy PM probably.

And I quite like Keir. He's sensible and steady. Which is what a prime minister should be. I've had enough of charisma and sound bites.

Jacob Rees-Mogg levelling up? Is it 1st April and I'm in a time warp?

We are facing a cost of living crisis with energy costs spirally. Could anyone tell me off the top of their head who is the shadow energy minister? Where is he/she?

Kier Starmer has not described voters as transphobic or told people what to think. I think you're conflating Corbynism / Owen Jones journalism with the current PLP, as a justification for voting Tory.

Keir Starmer is not the whole party and other party members are on record as saying those sort of things long after Corbyn departed. Has Starmer taken a hard line on his MPs calling former Labour voters names? His efforts are quite clearly concentrated on trying to keep the party together and keeping both sides happy rather than providing a decent opposition to the Tories.

It also started long before Corbyn, I actually thought Brown was pretty good but there's no denying that his 'bigoted woman' comment lifted the curtain for many 'red wall' type voters who suddenly saw that the Labour Party might not represent their views anymore. Drip drip drip it all poisoned the Labour well allowing Farage et al to get a foothold.

Labour have done nothing to change that, which is fine if they don't want 'those' type of people to vote for them as you suggested further up. But that ideological position has to come with acceptance that if you tell people not to vote for you if they don't agree with you, they won't.

I'm surprised you have decided I'm a Tory voter. I'm categorically not and I thought my various posts would have made that clear.

Thanks.

It's good to see some policy work being done in a general sense (I never doubted that was happening) but it still doesn't contain any actual policies; rather vague possibilities and lots of criticism of the government.

For example Corbyn's first manifesto contained details policies which were fully costed- that's part of why he did surprisingly well against May.

Obviously they aren't going to release a full manifesto yet but I don't see any evidence they could.

It is. This thread is about the UK where that is the position of the majority, both left and right.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jul/27/senior-tory-urges-liz-truss-to-explain-deletion-of-abortion-rights-from-statement-caroline-nokes

Nothing to worry about right?

You said the right care about women's rights

I didn't. I said specific right wingers had been engaged with the defense of single sex spaces from early on. I don't say 'the right' or 'the left' all think X because I'm not a child.

surely the right to a safe and legal abortion is a fundamental woman's right

It is. This thread is about the UK where that is the position of the majority, both left and right.

yet you side stepped the question, how interesting

I didn't. Your post is a complete non-sequitur to mine so I asked what the fuck you were on about.

pastabest I think the safe tory seats have been more safely targeted by the lib dems tbh, so far they've over turned 2 by elections with 20k majorities, so a lib-lab coalition might be possible but I wouldn't trust Starmer and I wouldn't trust Davey either tbh

It's ludicrous isn't it.

What are the Labour Party doing about it?

Are they planning to put a strong candidate up in that constituency next time to challenge him directly?

Are they out door knocking now, speaking to local voters, showing them that they will be an engaged constituency MP. Explaining how Labour policies will impact on them if elected.

Will they go and talk to the farmers in that area to understand what is going on for them and explain that in recent history British farming has done better under Labour governments than conservatives.

Will they go to the coffee mornings, the local college, market days and stand and LISTEN to people.

Or will they just roll over because 'it's a safe Tory seat', send a fresh faced graduate out a few weeks before the election who no one has ever heard of before and who tells people not to vote for them if they think women can have willies.

Then lose and stomp off into the sun set stating that it's not their fault the constituency is full of farmers, gammons and bigots.

You said the right care about women's rights, surely the right to a safe and legal abortion is a fundamental woman's right yet you side stepped the question, how interesting

Left wing and liberal minded women have been trying to talk about the impact of trans activism on their rights and Labour is not listening.
The right can spot this as the only stick it has left to beat Labour with. And Labour are letting it happen.
Struggle to heat your home or protect yourself from Men's Rights Activists. That's the choice Labour are giving us.

We should be asking What is a Man. Not "what is a woman".

How is denying women the right to a safe and legal abortion caring about women's rights, think you're going to have to explain that to me

I think you need to reread my post, and perhaps the one it's replying to. It wasn't about abortion.

Some right wingers have been very active, even when it was unpopular, because they genuinely care about free speech and women's rights.

How is denying women the right to a safe and legal abortion caring about women's rights, think you're going to have to explain that to me

the hard right has been the one driving the wedge on trans issues.

What utter nonsense. The people driving the women's right to single sex spaces issue were a group of (mostly very left wing) feminists. We know this because they used MN to organise and have been working this issue for over a decade.

Once this topic hit the mainstream, of course the type of people engaged broadened out. The idea that right wingers only engaged with this to split the left is laughably childish. Some right wingers have been very active, even when it was unpopular, because they genuinely care about free speech and women's rights.

My 8 YO knows that humans are complicated and can't be simplistically divided into goodies and baddies. I am reluctant to vote for a party with so many prominent members who understand humanity less than my child.