Help protect children from gaming harms.

Take our survey

Please or to access all these features

Politics

How is Sovereignity working out for you?

189 replies

Zeropointzero · 07/10/2021 16:48

Are there any other people who think we have been fed the biggest lie in regards to sovereignity of Britain.I think the current gas chrisis shows,how dependant Britain is on China and Russia and Europe.

OP posts:
blacksax · 09/10/2021 00:06

I think I'd take your question more seriously if you could actually spell sovereignty properly.

Having said that, it is preferable to being an insignificant region of a monolithic federal state.

Fifteentoes · 08/10/2021 23:59

And yet even the campaign as was, which you're saying didn't inspire enough fear, was derided as (literally) "project fear" - and considered not worth worrying about because it was obviously just scare tactics.

rrhuth · 08/10/2021 20:38

Too factual probably, dull, not emotive yes exactly - this is poor communication. They needed some fear ads of queues at petrol pumps and heaps of pig carcasses being burnt on farms Sad

MarshaBradyo · 08/10/2021 20:35

No they didn’t get cut through.

Too factual probably, dull, not emotive.

I very much enjoyed the programme with Cumberbatch playing DC (must have made his year to have that) and the tactics were very successful.

rrhuth · 08/10/2021 20:32

The polling showed remain failed to cut through - most people didn't recall their core messages and the economic details were poorly communicated.

MarshaBradyo · 08/10/2021 20:26

I don’t think Remain did badly on communicating economic reality

But Brexit side did better at getting closer to how people felt emotionally

Then ‘Project Fear’ idea struck a cord with many

If the same tactics had flipped maybe same outcome maybe not

rrhuth · 08/10/2021 20:22

@DGRossetti

In the Brexit debate remainers failed to communicate the economic realities of leaving the EU.

What a crock of fucking shit.

I don't understand why people get so angry about this remark I made, clearly the remain campaign failed to communicate well. They lost.

It wasn't helped by being fronted by bullshitter Cameron, and Mr Austerity himself, Osborne. Labour didn't get behind it, and the blatant lies from the leave side obliterated the facts.

But the remain campaign was definitely not a masterclass in political communication.

DGRossetti · 08/10/2021 17:25

In the Brexit debate remainers failed to communicate the economic realities of leaving the EU.

What a crock of fucking shit.

Fifteentoes · 08/10/2021 17:21

@3luckystars

I don’t think so. I know one very intelligent person who voted to leave. She felt the system ‘wasn’t working’ and voted to leave. She regrets it now but there is no point looking back before Brexit with rose tinted glasses. I think the UK did need a change, but not this. You were sold a pup. No point getting mad at the people who were lied to. Get mad at the liars.
The problem with this is that the people who were lied to will continue to be lied to, and many of them continue to believe those lies, with disastrous consequences not just for themselves but for me, my family and everyone else. Just look at their touching faith in our glorious prime minister who, after achieving some of the WORST results in the WORLD in response to the pandemic, on top of a decade of Tory austerity that has decimated living standards and exacerbated inequality to no particular advantage for anyone but the rich, looks like romping home in another election victory next time.

Brexit was not some isolated anomaly. It was just a particularly visible symptom of the poor political education, ingrained deference to the ruling class, xenophobia, small mindedness, kneejerk conservatism and selective gullability of the English electorate (which is not to say that every Leave voter was motivated by all those factors; but just that the combination of all of them delivered a majority across the electorate).

Leaving aside the many things this government have got disastrously wrong, no elector with any sense, access to information and ANY respect for genuine, fair, open democracy could possibly vote for them just on the basis of the inexorable slide into fascism that we're experiencing (voter ID bill; police crime and sentencing bill etc.). But they will, and it will continue to get worse.

Of course when the left point these things out, or when Remain activists pointed them out to Leavers, they're being "condescending". It's all the fault of the horrible Metropolitan Liberal Elite for showing their contempt of the patriotic working class you see - to which the natural response is two fingers up and a heroic "F.U."

Yet now that those decisions made on the basis of misguided, ill-informed patriotism DO turn out to be idiotic, it's suddenly terribly important that we don't SAY so, that we're all nice to each and understand that everybody was just doing their best.

F* that. Yes, I have to live with the consequences of other people imposing this crap on me. What I don't have to do is make them feel better about themselves be calling it anything other than what it is.

DuncinToffee · 08/10/2021 11:40

And is delivered by unicorns?

jgw1 · 08/10/2021 11:16

@JassyRadlett

Does anyone know if you can use sovereignty as a substitute for pasta in kids' meals?
You can, it also helps heat your home.
JassyRadlett · 08/10/2021 10:01

Does anyone know if you can use sovereignty as a substitute for pasta in kids' meals?

3luckystars · 08/10/2021 08:50

I don’t think so. I know one very intelligent person who voted to leave. She felt the system ‘wasn’t working’ and voted to leave. She regrets it now but there is no point looking back before Brexit with rose tinted glasses. I think the UK did need a change, but not this. You were sold a pup. No point getting mad at the people who were lied to. Get mad at the liars.

jaundicedoutlook · 08/10/2021 08:38

Sovereignty is an academic concept for politicians.

People didn’t vote for Brexit to give Jacob Rees Mogg something to gloat about. They voted for it to get rid of those nasty foreigners.

Empressofthemundane · 08/10/2021 08:23

I think Brexit is exacerbating global problems for the UK. It’s not the cause of them.

Everywhere is facing supply chain shortages and inflation. These are not caused by Brexit. Brexit does make it more difficult for us to arbitrage our way out of the worst of this.

QuentinBunbury · 08/10/2021 08:21

The remain campaign was weak. Because the two main parties refused to get behind it and there wasn't any source of funds for a coordinated "remain" movement.

Unlike "leave" which did have money (the source of which is rather murky).

This isn't the fault of "remainers" though. Most of us are just normal people who wouldn't know how to find or run an effective political campaign.

Really the government should have put some money into developing a campaign for both sides when they decided a referendum was a good idea.

rrhuth · 08/10/2021 08:16

@jgw1

The raising of wages sounds, superficially to those who do not understand economics, to be a positive thing.

If these economists are so wise, why did they not predict the 2008 crash? Or indeed any other crash?
If these economists and there beloved markets are so good, why is the government having to subsidize the manufacture of carbon dioxide?
If these economists are so good, why did they not advise the Chancellor that his stamp duty holiday would create a housing bubble?

Economists did warn about these things Confused

Can you not distinguish between economists and politicians?

Economists make no decisions.

Sunak knew the stamp duty holiday would artificially inflate prices, he did it anyway safe in the knowledge people like you blame 'economists' instead of blaming him.

IpanemaPeaHen · 08/10/2021 08:10

Not sure the 100k UK pigs about to be slaughtered and discarded are feeling very sovereign this morning.

nancy75 · 08/10/2021 08:04

@GADDay

Have we forgotten Boris' Bus of honest politicking..

How is that going for the NHS these days?

Boris would love to stick to the promises in the side of the bus, but it’s run out of petrol & they can’t find a driver
JassyRadlett · 08/10/2021 07:55

If these economists and there beloved markets are so good, why is the government having to subsidize the manufacture of carbon dioxide?

Why do you write about ‘economists and their beloved markets’? Do you think all economists are free market proponents? I’m not sure you understand what economists are.

(It’s fairly basic economics that market failures will occur in any free market system. If that market failure has wider impacts, public policy will need to step in.)

If these economists are so good, why did they not advise the Chancellor that his stamp duty holiday would create a housing bubble?

So many people - economists and not - predicted that. Very publicly. It was a political decision.

jgw1 · 08/10/2021 07:51

@Pokhora

What you want is wages to increase through productivity. This makes everyone richer because wage increases do not automatically translate into higher inflation so people get paid more but things cost the same.

Wages being raised through labour supply shortages automatically mean prices will go up. The impact will be disproportionate. In a few sectors e.g hgv drivers wage increases might outbase inflation but in the majority of low paid sectors, people will be poorer as wages will increase at a lower rate than inflation.

Higher inflation will also mean the boe raising interest rates which will increase the cost of housing. It will also increase the costs of the public sector through higher supply chain costs which will either necessitate an increase in taxes or further cuts to services.

One of the unfortunate impacts of brexit is lower productivity through an increase in bureaucracy and the costs of trading. This will make us all poorer.

It may make most of us poorer, but as long as it makes the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg richer, then it is all fine.
jgw1 · 08/10/2021 07:50

The raising of wages sounds, superficially to those who do not understand economics, to be a positive thing.

If these economists are so wise, why did they not predict the 2008 crash? Or indeed any other crash?
If these economists and there beloved markets are so good, why is the government having to subsidize the manufacture of carbon dioxide?
If these economists are so good, why did they not advise the Chancellor that his stamp duty holiday would create a housing bubble?

3luckystars · 08/10/2021 07:05

I think it’s fair to say that people were lied to. I don’t think anything can be gained for criticisms of the way people voted, when they were voting in the dark. Don’t turn on each other, you are getting mad at the wrong people.
Good luck UK.

chaosrabbitland · 08/10/2021 07:04

apologies for the many tyos , poor spelling , its too early for me !

chaosrabbitland · 08/10/2021 07:01

@GADDay

I am amazed that any self respecting person would confess to be pro-BrexShit.

Watching it all coming to fruition from afar - a trainwreck in motion. Much of the momentum DIRECTLY attributable to brexit. Yet we still have nationalist right wing twits proclaiming BREXIT was bloody marvellous.

Christ on a bike. What will it take for people to understand that they were hoodwinked/lied to/fed a shovel full of bullshit. It was all lies.

my best friend is ! he is convinced that brexit is great and will work out to be fantastic , he argues that the europe is short of hgv drivers themselves , and has a ready reason for any other problem the uk is suffering that is attiributable to brexit , the only time he goes a bit quiet is when i point out that whilst we no longer have freedom of movement here which means all those europeans that came to work here and support themselves , we do still have a load of ecomomic migrants illegally arriving by boat that so need supporting and cant work , he hasnt got much to say about that one ,

to save myself becoming frustrated and annoyed i try not to get into any conversation that might turn to brexit