How is Sovereignity working out for you?

I do get where you're coming from, Persephone, I really do. It's just the hypocrisy of them that gets me.
We all need to eat more lentils. Better for our health, better for the environment. 😉

Oh absolutely @madisonbridges - I’m mostly vegetarian for animal welfare reasons, but this isn’t an animal welfare issue but an economic one. It’s like a shop having to burn its whole stock.

I didn’t see any farmers crying but the waste is upsetting, although the pigs would die anyway, when there is so much food poverty in this country, let alone the wider world.

@PersephoneJames. I see what you're saying. But I watched farmers crying over their poor pigs dying an ignominious death. No tears when they're kept in inhumane farrowing crates; nor when they're loaded into a haulage van and shipped off to the abattoir; nor when abattoir workers are paid piecework, rather than an hourly rate, so in their haste pigs aren't slaughtered correctly. You've probably guessed I'm not pig farmers' greatest fan!

@madisonbridges no but it might’ve been nice for the farmers who raised them and spent thousands feeding them to have got a salary out of them instead of a load of unsellable carcasses, and I’m sure the average consumer would’ve preferred not to have to pay over inflated prices for the EU pork we’ve had to import to fill in the gaps.

Haha. I remember in the 70s, our job centre was a room over a hairdressers with woman and a rolladex. You said what you wanted to do, she looked it up, gave you the details and off you popped

Wow. Different times indeed

I'm alright tbh. EU citizen here, just need to sort my UK citizenship and I'll feel a bit more secure. DC have UK citizenship and 2 other passports so I think they'll be ok.

I don’t see anyone else killing pigs for nothing?

But don’t worry we can import that lovely European pork to fill the gaps

Supply chain bottle necks and labour shortages were not caused by Brexit. They are a global phenomenon.

From a purely personal point of view, I'm enjoying the labour shortage. Walked out of one job and straight into another one...like it's the 1970's or something.

patronising, incoherent comments such as accusing leavers of eating fish and chips in Spain create division and are one of the reasons Remain lost.

So we have been told, people voted Leave and to 'get Brexit done' because they were upset Remainers called them names. The very definition of stupidity in my book.
Next time theres a referendum, just ask yourself one question 'what would Putin want?' And whatever that thing is DON'T FUCKING VOTE FOR IT!

@Zeropointzero
spelling mistake it is Rhein
Not in English which is, after all, the language we're all writing in.

All this going on about the economy, when are you going to get it? Leave voters don't give a shit about the economy. All they ever cared about was sticking two fingers up to Europe and getting rid of immigrants. And yes, having a stupid fucking crown on a pint glass is more important to them than empty supermarket shelves and petrol queues. Johnson get this, that's why he's so popular.

Germany has a higher number of immigrants than the UK and higher productivity.

The UK gov could learn a lot but they have rejected all things European so they won’t.

[quote FreshFreesias]@Zeropointzero Snobbish, patronising, incoherent comments such as accusing leavers of eating fish and chips in Spain create division and are one of the reasons Remain lost.[/quote]
It was I who had that fish and chips in Spain accusation levelled against me.

Ironically, due to my German heritage, I am far more likely to be found quaffing riesling and sucking on a bratwurst on the banks of the Rhine than I am devouring sardinas and patatas bravas on the Costa Del Sol. But there you go

@Zeropointzero Snobbish, patronising, incoherent comments such as accusing leavers of eating fish and chips in Spain create division and are one of the reasons Remain lost.

@pokhora,

I am talking about shares in investment banks specifically.

And, yes, last few years have been good, but 20-30 years, not do good.

@rrhuth

I think 'free of the yoke' is one of my fave brexiteer phrases

I see Germany is crippled by that yoke!

Something the UK would - and still could - not have ever done.

@TheReluctantPhoenix. Shareholders of investment trusts have profited enormously e.g one I happen to hold has increased by 270% in the last 5 years.
www.google.com/search?q=allianz+technology+trust+share+price&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&source=android-browser&ei=dmphYeffNsf4gQauuISQBw&oq=allianz+technology+Trust+share&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIKCAAQgAQQRhD6ATIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgQIABBDMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgYIABAWEB46BAgAEEc6CwguEIAEEMcBENEDULQSWKYfYOcmaABwAXgBgAGYA4gBqweSAQc0LjIuNC0xmAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

@pokhora,

So how have investment bankers increased productivity by many hundreds of percent in the last 30 years (despite the shareholders not profiting at all)?

The same argument could be made for many areas.

Ultimately we have increased productivity (although not that much) by actually continuously paying less and less in real terms to our semiskilled and unskilled labour.

I do agree with you about some kind of universal income, though. It is just that many ‘skilled’ people believe that endless discussion in TEAMS meetings cannot be automated-they can.

We may be a few percent poorer on average, but the lower paid workers, who were out-competed by migrants, prepared to work for poverty wages (as they could transfer this money home), may be a lot better off.

That doesn’t really hold with the model of scarcity-driven wage growth (rather than productivity-driven wage growth) we now seem to be going for. It delivers inflation which always hits those with less discretionary income hardest.