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Original poster

Boris' conference talk

165 replies

hamstersarse · 06/10/2021 11:59

Whatever you think of him, I can't help but think his optimism and vision is somewhat engaging?

OP posts:
rrhuth · 06/10/2021 15:19

@urbanbuddha

The biggest lie coming from the Left is that Trans Women are Women. That is at almighty proportions in the lying gauge, not some over-optimism about what can be achieved.

Looks like change is a-comin in the Tory party too -

Carrie Johnson urges Tories to back transgender rights

Yes, this was an interesting intervention I thought, given the pains to present an 'anti-woke' (wtf) agenda.
urbanbuddha · 06/10/2021 15:05

The biggest lie coming from the Left is that Trans Women are Women. That is at almighty proportions in the lying gauge, not some over-optimism about what can be achieved.

Looks like change is a-comin in the Tory party too -

Carrie Johnson urges Tories to back transgender rights

Eve · 06/10/2021 14:42

The saying:

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on both of us.”

come to mind.

Original poster
hamstersarse · 06/10/2021 14:37

@BananaPB

It is fair to be angry that politicians have made bold statements about Brexit without them delivering it or admitting that they spoke too soon.
The point is we don't allow politicians to do anything other than bold statements that fit in a headline

This is cross party by the way.

We demand comfort, reassurance and certainty from them even though it is usually based on bollocks. If we could handle more nuance and accepted that there isn't always a straightforward answer then things might improve.

I enjoyed Boris's speech today because at least it was upbeat - do I think that he will be able to deliver "level up" - probably not. It's going to be almost impossible to deliver that vision, and that is for anyone in that position. It is incredibly complex, and subject to huge risks and dependencies but maybe there will be marginal changes.

Does that make him a liar?

Not any worse than any leader I have ever come across.

Just appreciated a bit of upbeatness and optimism amongst the doom and gloom

OP posts:
BananaPB · 06/10/2021 14:30

In the case of journalists, there will be desperation to be in the loop as much as government favourites Laura K and Robert Peston. It's extraordinary how they are briefed before everyone else on important issues like lockdown rules.

BananaPB · 06/10/2021 14:24

It is fair to be angry that politicians have made bold statements about Brexit without them delivering it or admitting that they spoke too soon.

BananaPB · 06/10/2021 14:21

I understand they aren't going to admit that border checks were an EU red line that they wouldn't cross so they had to concede on that front. Politicians should be responsible enough not to promise what they can't deliver.
No border checks might be the vision but it's not workable in reality.

Original poster
hamstersarse · 06/10/2021 14:19

The words "I don't know" are underrated and need to be used more by politicians.

I agree.

But our press and seemingly now us, will not accept that things are not ever straight black and white.

I can't imagine anyone accepting a politician saying "I don't know"

Why don't you know?!? Angry

You are paid to do this, you should know Angry

We seem to need the comfort of black and white answers when the truth is always more grey

OP posts:
BananaPB · 06/10/2021 14:15

Are you the poster who posted a similar thread yesterday? (It might have been taken down ?)

BananaPB · 06/10/2021 14:14

The words "I don't know" are underrated and need to be used more by politicians.

"We can not guarantee no border checks but would prefer a solution which doesn't involve any"

No other job would accept such a wishy washy answer. In most other jobs you agree to deliver products or services by fixed dates at agreed prices and are answerable to why it's not possible if things change.

Original poster
hamstersarse · 06/10/2021 14:11

[quote luckylavender]@hamstersarse - and you're talking the same sort of drivel that he does. He performs as a vapid hilarious clown but he's actually very very dangerous. What he is doing to people is immoral. But you think he's funny, ok. [/quote]
It's just an observation and don't worry my feelz aren't hurt, but there are an awful lot of personal attacks towards me on this thread.

Coming from people who claim to be compassionate and kind?

OP posts:
Original poster
hamstersarse · 06/10/2021 14:02

@FinallyHere

What are the lies that people refer to all the time?

Now I know you are not serious, OP.

@Burnshersmurfs you beat me to it. 😀

The PM is the ultimate authority on lies within the chamber, so there are effectively no longer any sanctions on lying to the House.

Hansard has examples of the PM's lies written into the record.

I am a bit serious.

I don't doubt that Boris lies, or at the very least exaggerates.

What I don't get is the simplistic position people use on this. Liar or Bastion of Truth. We are all a bit in the middle here. So I just think it is a bit lazy. Those examples given in the video could very easily be labelled as outright lies if you are being lazy about it, but there are explanations for each of them, which if it were you, you would expect to be taken into account.

This demand for absolute truth is ironically one of the reasons that politicians have to lie.

e.g. Journalist "Can you confirm that there will be no checks in N.I after Brexit, it's a yes or no answer"

Boris " Well, we will do our utmost to protect the borders"

Journalist "It's a yes or no answer"

Boris " It's complicated, there are things to consider...bla bla"

Journalist: " Why are you avoiding the question..yes or no can you provide an absolute guarantee?"

You see where it goes.

OP posts:
borntobequiet · 06/10/2021 13:54

Awful. Bullshit, bluster and lies, as usual.

Burnshersmurfs · 06/10/2021 13:51

Here’s a slightly better link to the Stefanovic video- apologies as hadn’t realised it wasn’t included in the discussion there.
:
Always seems interesting to me that Cummings is considered such an unreliable source only now that he is out of power and saying things that challenge the government. When he was within the inner circle, it didn’t appear to be a concern. He seems to me to be no more or less of a liar now than he was then- but at least is no longer making decisions that affect whether people live or die (at least, I hope not- who knows nowadays).
Led by Donkeys campaigns are always good to look at too if humour is your thing. twitter.com/bydonkeys
If you have concerns about the quotations being decontextualised then it’s not hard to follow up to discover the context for yourself.

luckylavender · 06/10/2021 13:51

@hamstersarse - and you're talking the same sort of drivel that he does. He performs as a vapid hilarious clown but he's actually very very dangerous. What he is doing to people is immoral. But you think he's funny, ok.

luckylavender · 06/10/2021 13:47

@hamstersarse - I'm so glad you enjoyed it on the day his government has thrown thousands into poverty and is about to bankrupt large swathes of the farming industry. When I want enjoyment I go to the theatre. I expect our government to be responsible not performing clowns. I'm alright Jack.

FinallyHere · 06/10/2021 13:46

We are no relying on anything other than the evidence of what the PM has said, on the record, to know his lies.

"There will be no documentation required exporting between GB and NI. In answer to a follow up question, he was filmed saying if anyone asks you got documents (in that situation ) call me and I'll tell you to bin any documentation. "

How is that one working out?

RunningOnFumes · 06/10/2021 13:45

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

An actual hamster would have more insight.
GrinGrin
luckylavender · 06/10/2021 13:43

He doesn't have any vision. He just spouts waffle and because he uses long words people trust him.

FinallyHere · 06/10/2021 13:42

What are the lies that people refer to all the time?

Now I know you are not serious, OP.

@Burnshersmurfs you beat me to it. 😀

The PM is the ultimate authority on lies within the chamber, so there are effectively no longer any sanctions on lying to the House.

Hansard has examples of the PM's lies written into the record.

urbanbuddha · 06/10/2021 13:42

@DoubleTweenQueen

Blush You're very kind.

DoubleTweenQueen · 06/10/2021 13:39

@urbanbuddha You are also an optimistic (and may I say, thoughtful) person 💐

Burnshersmurfs · 06/10/2021 13:37

I suppose that depends on how you define a lie. If you have a similar definition to the one which seems right to me- ie, wilfully communicating something that you know to be untrue for the purpose of personal gain- then no, I don’t think that is the case for all of us on a consistent basis.

Original poster
hamstersarse · 06/10/2021 13:36

@PurpleDaisies

Also, you do know we are all liars? All of us?

Given the prime minister is er, the prime minister, his behaviour needs to be held to a different standard than Dave down the pub.

Part of the problem is this unrealistic expectation of black and white situations in politics.

So one of the examples in this video is about the N.Ireland situation. You could say it was a lie, you could also say, as the commentator on there is saying that it was over-optimism and 'wishful thinking' not a direct lie and had to change as things progressed and changed. Never had to do that yourself? I'd think you were lying if you said no.

The biggest lie coming from the Left is that Trans Women are Women. That is at almighty proportions in the lying gauge, not some over-optimism about what can be achieved.

OP posts:
urbanbuddha · 06/10/2021 13:32

@hamstersarse

Thanks. I wish that for you too.