Boris' conference talk

@hamstersarse It always tickles me that if you don't admire/support/agree with or are heavily suspicious of BJ and his Gvmnt, then you're a 'lefty'. It's really not the case for many many people. Many dyed-in-the-wool conservatives are also raging against this lot.
You are generalising and straw clutching to try and make some sort of point, which seems to boil down to the fact you are a Boris fan, and anyone who questions that is not an optimist/nice person/aspirational/ever been poor and must be a 'lefty'.
Think that about captures it.

Education, aspiration, work ethic, optimism, kindness, compassion, clarity of understanding - are quite widespread throughout the population. You seem to think you have a monopoly.

Appalling hypocrite.

@hamstersarse - yes I know, of course. But why you think Labour enables it and Johnson's Tories are the answer is truly baffling. I grew up in the South Wales Valleys and saw the devastation that Thatcher caused my community, the scars have never healed. And I never thought would loath any politician as much as her. But at least she had a plan. When Johnson talks about well paid skilled jobs, what do you think that means for Care workers, refuse collectors, people waiting on tables?

I'm amazed that people are still buying into his shit. After everything that has happened.

I've got to hand it to the guy. He clearly has something going for him, as so many people seem willing to follow him so blindly. The triumph of hope over experience, I guess. I don't get it personally.

On the one hand, you think poverty is hell. But then aspiration is also hell?
I have said neither of those things. You are just making shit up now, OP. I think this thread is just here for GF reasons, so this will be my last post on it. Feel free to make up some more nonsense that I didn't actually say have the last word.
FWIW I am one of those people 'with no money' that you refer to. You truly have no idea.

@hamstersarse - that's just not true. They don't care a jot about poor people. Have aspirations, get rich. That's great. But don't think Johnson's Tories will give you a leg up. They'd rather forget about you like they have about Nazaneen Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

Without 'money and clout' Johnson would be a nobody. He's Benny Hill with a posh accent and a bit of racism thrown in.
I can't imagine why anyone would admire him.

In what way would it be bad to admire people who have money and clout?
I don't think it's 'bad', but I do think it's sad to be so in thrall to people who are richer than you - to admire someone for what they have rather than what they are. Each to their own. I prefer to admire people who have honesty, talent and integrity. Still, at least you admit that it's his money and 'breeding' you're impressed with, rather than his bumbling idiocy. The Pandora Papers are doing a fairly good expose at the moment of the people you so admire... to use your own words "people with money [however ill-gotten] and clout". The world is full of them. No wonder, if they have so many people prepared to grovel at their feet.

I suppose the answer to that is that admiration might be better given after consideration of how they gained that money and how they apply that clout.

'Let the dead pile high in the streets'

OP - Coming from people who claim to be compassionate and kind?
Nobody on this thread has described themselves as compassionate and kind. You are as adept at making up bullshit as Boris is.

I wonder if you're one of those people who is impressed because he went to Eton and has lots of money and clout; someone who hero worships people who they think are 'above' them in some imagined pecking order. Does that describe you, OP?

Well said BurnsherSmurfs. And I would much rather my taxes went to you and others needing help than in the back pockets of the PM’s mates.

I’m a single parent too- and was also on benefits for a period. I am so, so grateful to the system at the time that welcomed and supported me and gave me the chance to get back on my feet when I was vulnerable and scared. I feel- with quite a sense of certainty- that the majority of people on benefits are just like me- many of them working, a few of them needing that care and support more intensively and for longer than I did. I am so sad that this country has moved away from the compassion and understanding that once was shown to me. At that time, I was so proud of us and valued it so much. I have done well since then and know I owe a lot of that to the support I got when it was needed. Had I been ground down by the stress of poverty, constantly worried about how to manage and aware of the contempt this country now seems to feel for people like me, I doubt that success would have happened. As we are back to motivation again- punishment is way less effective than gratitude.

An increase in benefits is not the only way to improve people's lives. Cutting services or allowing inefficient ones to continue to bumble along is not the answer either. Sure Start was proven to have more than benefits to children's health and there is no will to run the Child Maintenance Service properly which would Aso improve lives for children.
In the case of the CMS, government pays the RP child maintenance and recoups it from the NRP via HMRC or Benefits system so that theres guaranteed income for the RP. Loopholes for the self employed are closed. It's ridiculous that they can tell CMS that they are on minimum wage but a credit check when they apply for a mortgage uses a different figure and this isn't flagged to HMRC or CMS.

@hamstersarse - I don't believe benefits are the only solution but I cannot take seriously someone who deliberately plunges people into poverty with no safety net. Not everyone can work.

“Just appreciated a bit of upbeatness and optimism amongst the doom and gloom”
I can really understand why. However, I feel like I’m the more optimistic one in the end because I actually do believe that things could and can change. If the position you hold is that: 1) all politicians are liars 2) we just need to accept that and let them get on with it 3) there’s no point in getting involved either emotionally or actively 4) at least some of them provide the lols so we might as well hang on to them, then that seems to be closer to despair than hope. Do you really believe this- this careless, selfish, extemporising buffoon and retinue of on-the-make shysters- is what we deserve?

@hamstersarse - it is very difficult to keep calm when you are really admiring someone who is doing the most vulnerable in society very real harm. And you're so very flippant about it. So excuse me for actually not being so bothered about your feelings as I am about those who literally cannot afford to feed their children and know it will get worse.