The Westminster Arms

Boris has a few GC people around him

...and Dominic Cummings is. No doubt about that.

I'd love to know whether Carrie is GC but she is a good friend of Nimco Ali and there is no way anyone with a rational brain could listen to Nimco's campaign and think that girls could "identify" their way out of FGM.

Dusty glad to hear the ablation has been life changing for you!

I have no periods now due to menopause, but that's a whole other barrel of monkeys!

It has been very reassuring to me to know that Boris has a few GC people around him. I reckon Carrie is, I know his sister is, and Andrew Gilligan certainly is! (Even though he is the transport Tsar or somesuch I'm sure he will speak up on this if it crops up in conversation.)

And yes, it is a very pleasant atmosphere in here, long may it remain so. Glad I found you all!

Sanpro. Bloody autocorrect.

Singing, I try very hard not to say or think RLB. I notice she still hasn't managed to get on the final ballot paper. And Lisa Nandy is there. That really has surprised me,

Perhaps all of these people are reading this thread and taking notice.

I watched PMQs and did not notice Boris' avoidance of the words women and girls. But, now you point it out it is hard not to unhear it...as Dusty said.
Carrie will be on to it I think.

It will be great if the VAT on Sandro is dropped straight away. It will send a good signal.

“I love how the wider remit of the Westminster Arms means we can easily discuss matters like this and still stay within the purpose of the thread, by the way.”

Me too!!! I think it’s fab. 😊

Dusty, I know that feeling! Never apologise.

By the way, and a complete change of subject (but still within the spirit of the thread ), my Question of the Day.

Does anyone else mentally add the word "toothbrush" when they say the initials RLB?

I love how the wider remit of the Westminster Arms means we can easily discuss matters like this and still stay within the purpose of the thread, by the way.

All good points - I shall make myself more aware and be on the lookout for these issues in the future.

I'm an oldie and never had to think about these issues so much in the olden days. I've always believed in equality but never burned my bra.

Changing the meaning of ordinary words by inverting them is the first step of a slippery slope. Shutting down debate is another. George Orwell sets it out in his book and shows us, step by step, what it leads to.

Identity politics is rife with the same traps and a matter that causes me great concern, but as Dusty points out, once you see it, you can't unsee it.

I'm rather hoping for a reshuffle that's not so radical as to be scary but not so mild as to be merely cosmetic. I think that the choice of Equalities Minister will be a significant indicator of how important women's concerns around safety and around child safeguarding will be treated by this government. Like MrsSnippyPants, I really would welcome some clarity. And obviously, I'm praying that common sense will rule.

To be fair nobody said it was a heinous crime, it's a drip drip drip effect. If we can't see sex, we can't see sexism, if we can't see sex we can't talk about violence against women and girls, particularly sexual violence, and the fact it is mostly committed by men and boys.

The recent reports on sexual harassment and sexual violence in schools are a case in point; they talk about 'peer on peer' assaults. Why won't they mention that the vast majority of victims are girls and the vast majority of perpetrators are boys?

There has been a very noticeable shift in language over the last few years; as Dusty said, once you have seen it, you can't unsee it.

Anyway, plenty on FWR for those who want to learn more, but I stand by the statement 'people don't have periods, women and girls do'.

Dear god, apologies for my over use of ‘deliberate’... 😂

“I still don't think Boris has committed a heinous crime. If he was talking about vasectomies, for example, would you feel the same if he didn't use the words men?”

Well, it would certainly have been odd, if he had said that vasectomies will be available for everyone in the country... 😂😂😂

That said, I don’t think anyone was suggesting a ‘crime’ or even that it WAS deliberate, but when it’s been deliberately and subtly applied in other places, by other influential people then I guess it’s not a giant leap to at least ‘wonder’ if it was a deliberate omission. I suppose you see it more when you know about it, as per dusty’s earlier comment. I’m not sure either way. I think it could have been accidental, and as Boris doesn’t strike me as the type to subscribe to identity politics (in that way) then I would err toward it not being intentional. I will look out for it going forward though.

I am aware of the sex v identity issue currently raging and sick at the invasion of women's safe spaces and the whole trans issue when it impacts on real women.

I still don't think Boris has committed a heinous crime. If he was talking about vasectomies, for example, would you feel the same if he didn't use the words men?

I've poured myself another red and still pondering.

Me too Dusty and it is exactly as you say.

One of the reasons I was so relieved that the Conservatives got a large majority was that perhaps we could now not be consumed by Brexit and find some space to discuss other issues.

And this issue, the rights of women and girls, is immensely important to me and many other women (and would be immensely important to a lot of other people if they were actually made aware of what is going on).

James Kirkup explains it well, as did George Orwell

"Because words matter, anyone engaged in any political act will seek to control and influence language. Journalism should resist and observe those attempts, not accede to them: when a politician says they will “invest” public money, that should be reported for what it is: spending. And so on."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/was-this-journalist-sacked-for-saying-sex-is-binary/

Somewhat mindboggling that anyone could regard sanpro as a luxury... or at least, anyone over the age of 10.

It’s a complex subject whatever side you fall I think Silvery. 😊 🍷

I'm obviously in the minority about this, so will go away and have a re-think.

In the meantime could I have a glass of red please to get the brain cells moving?

The language around periods DOES matter. The Department of Education have been particularly guilty of this; only women and girls have periods and there is no reason not to use those words.
But when you see what has been going on at the DofE.......

"has championed the introduction of gender neutral toilets in the department’s Coventry, London and Nottingham offices"

www.stonewall.org.uk/people/senior-champion-year-2019-jonathan-slater

I'm really surprised, in retrospect, that David Cameron didn't include it in his list of demands when he returned triumphantly from Brussels with his little list of reforms the EU had agreed to, just prior to the referendum.

It could have made all the difference.