The Westminster Arms

Thanks for the dippy eggs Lily, and the daily round up of events.

I had very mixed feelings watching the goodbyes to the EU. I really did not like Farage's antics at all. IMO there's no place for such behaviour in politics, least of all when we are leaving such an institution. He'd got what he wanted so just go with a modicum of dignity. It was embarrassing to watch.

Conversely, I didn't like the scarf wearing remainer MEPs' display yesterday either.
I won't forget their embarrassing bollocks to brexit t shirt display in Strasbourg, which Guy Verhofstadt enjoyed so much.
Maybe I'm just too old for today's modern politics.

There's certainly a glass half full/ glass half empty tone

That's exactly the same analogy that Julie Burchill used, Ommward, so it's definitely not too early for coherent thoughts

Morning, Copper and mummmy.

The LL has asked me to go and source a new supplier so I'll be back later. There's fresh tea and coffee if anyone needs a second cup.

Merçi beaucoup, bellini. Je comprends.

You plural- "vous" rather than "tu". Or maybe even "on"

eventually you will have to stop dividing people into "Leavers" and "Remainers"

Morning, Bellini,

Not sure whether you mean "you" in the general "everybody here" sort of sense or whether you mean "you" to refer to Julie Burchill as it was of course an extrapolation of her comments.

You can't possibly mean "you" to apply to me personally. After all, my posting history shows that one thing I've certainly been consistent about is my view that we all had our reasons to vote as we did - either for Leave or Remain - and that exercising our democratic rights should be respected either way.

I've also been consistently supportive of those who voted Remain but who are, above all, believers in democracy and accept that we must move on.

So if your view is that we, as a nation, should stop dividing people into Leavers and Remainers, that is something on which I definitely could stand shoulder to shoulder with you. I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, of the regulars in here would say the same.

I do understand that people are still upset about the result and anxious about the future. I am bemused, however, by those who insist they would cut dead anyone in their family or friendship circles who had dared to exercise their democratic right to vote Leave and who now actively wish harm on their own country and their fellow citizens just to prove a point, just as I am bemused by the triumphalism displayed by Nigel Farage and others of his ilk.

It's nasty, childish and unnecessary. Some people really do need to grow up.

So yes to the grown-ups meeting in the moderate reasonable middle and yes to those who believe we should now find reasons to work together, compromise and move forward.

Agree with you, too, Bellini. Although, again, I come across a very vocal minority of people who are stuck hard fast in how we are going to hell in a hand basket by leaving the EU - their belief in the tragic folly of that course over rides all else and is mentioned at every opportunity. Whoever it was who got jumped on ages ago about the stages of grief had it exactly right at the time (and I remember the fury with which that characterisation was greeted, at least a year or two after the referendum... It was possible to stick in denial and rage until after the 2019 general election, and that's another thing for which I blame the conduct of our sergeant pepper crew. If we were going to leave, which we should have been going to do given the referendum and its result, then all that manoeuvring to try to avoid doing so was not good in so many ways, including giving everyone a chance to come to terms with that as the logical next step. Although - again - we're probably better off as we are rather than with whatever poor Mrs may and her minority government could have navigated

Like I said, coherent thought not to the fore at this time of day.

I never thought of Boris as that.
Yet it is like an over excited school boy is hiding inside of him and leaps out sometimes, wanting to jump in the puddles the rain has made.

"Leavers are natural optimists and see the freedom that comes from opportunities and possibilities, she says, while Remainers are pessimists and see only the uncertainty of leaving the safety of a rules-based artificial construct."
Guessing today (or the next few days) is not the time but eventually you will have to stop dividing people into "Leavers" and "Remainers". My guess is that most people aren't hardcore anything after all this but just want to move forward. And some don't, I get that. Which is not great for anyone's frame of mind.

Morning all and thanks for the yummy breakfast Singing. Dippy eggs and soldiers are my favourite.

I think you are absolutely right about optimists and pessimists and it had never occurred to me before.
I think that is what makes Boris so popular. He is clearly cheerful and optimistic

Yes, completely agree with Julie burchill on that one. There's certainly a glass half full/ glass half empty tone to the conversations I've encountered around politics in recent years.

I've heard a lot about the authoritarian strand of much of the left, and that goes with a faith in lots of government and institutions to try to make things better rather than (what a pessimist might call) a blithe assumption that people are basically good and ingenious and don't need state intervention to make them do honourable things.

Too early in the morning for me to put together a coherent thought!!

Interesting report scary.

In so so glad that whatever goes on there is not our worry any more.

Oops, sorry, it was not notangelinajolie but mummmy2017.

I do think mummmy makes a valid point.

Morning, all,

Today the HoC will be turning its mind to Transport (when we might get the promised statement on HS2) and to business questions to Jacob Rees Mogg as Leader of the House.

The HoL will be asking questions about the shape of the future trade relationship with the EU as well as considering the question of setting up a trauma centre at Westminster to help the victims of any future terrorist attacks.

Select committee chairs were elected by MPs with Jeremy Hunt getting Health, Tom Tugendhat Foreign Affairs, Tobias Ellwood Defence, Greg Clark Science and Tech, and Stephen Timms Work and Pensions.

Watch the Science and Tech brief. Science minister Chris Skidmore told Policy Exchange that he was ‘working at pace’ to get a UK ARPA (Advanced Research Projects Agency) 'up and running this year’. ARPA is the initiative closest to Dmitri's heart - a high-risk high-reward pursuit of transformative research to make the UK the new Silicon Valley.

Mr Skidmore made a keynote speech at Durham University - think of all those lovely new blue seats in the NE - in which he laid out how the government is committed to doubling the public R&D budget over the next five years with the aim of spending 2.4% of GDP by 2027 to boost manufacturing and engineering research.

I'm still catching up with the newspapers but was cheered by Julie Burchill's column in the Sunday Telegraph. She was searching for a way to understand why some people are still stuck in denial, anger and depression about the result of the referendum (something along the lines of what notangelinajolie said). David Goodhart's descriptors of Somewheres and Anywheres went some way to helping but she felt a key factor was missing. Finally, she alighted on it: pessimists and optimists. Leavers are natural optimists and see the freedom that comes from opportunities and possibilities, she says, while Remainers are pessimists and see only the uncertainty of leaving the safety of a rules-based artificial construct.

Julie Burchill is, of course, a contrarian and likes to provoke. Nonetheless, I think she would enjoy a drink and a natter in The Westminster Arms, the hotbed of optimism.

Boiled eggs and soldiers for breakfast, and yes, the eggs are guaranteed to be dippy. Please help yourselves.

Kettle's on ☕️☕️☕️

Gosh, the European Parliament- that was rather embarrassing, wasn't it?

Even a Little Englander must've felt their toes curl at that unedifying spectacle.

This isn't how you demonstrate honest intent in trade negotiations.

But, we are where we are.

I think what struck me during the 13 years in Belgium, is that the EU is viewed by some almost as a religion. It was enlightening talking to some of them and alarming to hear the fervour in their voices. It was also amusing amongst some of my peer group when they realised that not everyone had drunk their EU kool aid.

It has been interesting today to read some threads about leaving. I know people who are third country nationals who manage to live and work in the EU without too much trouble. Some on other threads have posited that conflict in Europe will be the fault of Brexit. They have evidently never heard of Article Five of the Washington Treaty, or of NATO come to that.

For the query about pensions, there is a lot deeply buried in the EU Programme of Works. Pension rationalisation across the EU is one such thing, as is standardising inheritance law. With the former, it won't be pensions in Romania being updated to the level of ours; and were we to stay, it would be interesting to see if we could still retain both an employer's and state pension, as this is not allowed in some other EU Member States. I think the EU would be on sticky ground trying to change our inheritance laws, as we don't use the Napoleonic system, but I bet they would have a damn good try.

Remember when we were threatened with a “punishment budget”?

On Friday night I will be curled up in my pjs with my bottle of fizz waiting for 2300 to strike. I will phone my leaver mates in Brussels to say 'yay'.

Oh I hate dressing up too! Hope you enjoy it.

Ah, I misunderstood.

I am looking forward to Friday but I hate driving in the dark and I especially hate dressing up.

The food had better be good

Lily if you mean the thread where I was singing, it wasn’t a political thread. Sadly it’s been taken down, but MNHQ were kind enough to refer to songs & poetry in their deletion messages 😂

You are going to have so much fun on Friday! I will be watching TV and trying to ignore GFs on here I expect.

At the time, I was being told we were going to withdraw A50 or have BINO.
People could not see getting 27 to agree was a nightmare.

Thanks jolie

mummy I wasn’t here then, sounds....interesting!

I think I wandered by accident onto the thread you mentioned earlier, Autumn. It's just a boiling scream of rage all round apart from a handful of posters so I just backed out again.

Going back to Nigel, I do think all British MEPs should have left with grace and dignity. It's no longer about the relationship we had; that legally comes to an end in 50 hours and 30 minutes anyway. It's now about our future relationship. I dislike the political construct that is the EU but I love Europe. We should be good neighbours and allies. There's no place for rancour if we are to move forward.

Remember the fight when about two years ago I mentioned the five stages of grief.
Now the papers have been mentioning it.

Autumn
So were Nigel et al there for Auld Lang Syne

They didn't show him so I think they must have already left the room.

I think they flounced out after the flag incident.

It was actually very funny.