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Politics

Can someone explain the national insurance rise please?

32 replies

furrytoebean · 16/12/2019 14:48

I've just read that Borris is raising the threshold to paying national insurance.
Will this not just mean more people don't pay it and therefore more people will have gaps in their National insurance and be locked out of the state pension?
So it seems like a good thing for poor people but will actually hurt them in the long run.
I know you can pay voluntary contributions but I don't think it's very clear how to do this and lots of people are just going to think it's a tax break with no consequences and this is only for pensions not any other benefit.
Am I missing something? Is there going to an expansion on the credit system?

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Tn242 · 17/12/2019 22:38

Furrytoebean is correct and the link provided enables you to check your national insurance record and obtain a state pension forecast. You only have 6 years to fill in gaps, unless you have a very good excuse for not having done it in time.

For the year to count for pension purposes you have to have earnings above the annual lower earnings limit. This can help people with irregular earnings as the year can count even if you only work 2-3 months of the year but meet the earnings limit.

Conversely if you are self employed or work regularly but only just around the weekly lower earnings limit and miss a week, everything else paid for the year doesn't count. The record will show if you get credits or built up home responsibilities protection to help the year count.

It is therefore important to check your record, as HMRC used to write if your record was deficient but they no longer do this.

There is currently a statutory formula linking the lower earnings limit and upper, but some contributors have highlighted that it is important to track these and that you fall within these limits and check the details of the government's proposals. They could break that link and take more people out of building up a pension, which you can currently do without paying any NI

Also remember that national insurance is used now to pay benefits and pensions now, so your "pot" isn't invested for your future, like your private pension funds are. Approx 20% of total NI paid goes to the NHS, the rest to benefits and pensions, and the shortfall is covered by general taxation. Crucially it doesn't technically cover social care and this is where the real existential crisis for the UK and first world countries is growing.

furrytoebean · 17/12/2019 15:02

I think it's between £116 -£166 a week or thereabout.
If you earn less than this you don't get any nic and if you earn more you have to pay.

You need 10 years to get basic and 35 years to get full.

I think there are going to be a lot of people unaware of this and horrified when they go to collect their pension as I don't think it's explained to people very well at all.

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lindyloo57 · 17/12/2019 14:50

User1497207191 what is the lower band I worked part time until age 56 no gaps but still only have 24 years stamps, most of them are for bring up two children in the seventies and eighties,I did a forecast and that's what they said I have.

user1497207191 · 17/12/2019 14:28

Nothing has changed you do not get credits for NI if you are working and below level to pay

You don't have to pay NIC to get credits if you are within the two lower limits, there is a band where no NICs are payable but you still get credits.

user1497207191 · 17/12/2019 14:27

Helping wealthy tax evaders yes.

Tax avoidance/evasion rocketed under Brown but is now steadily reducing under the Tories who have also brought in higher taxes on business owners paying themselves in dividends, higher stamp duty and ATED on foreign property investors, reduced tax relief available for landlords, imposed IR35 on disguised employment, tackled loan/trust payroll schemes, and is actively working with other countries to avoid offshore tax avoidance, etc. So, in fact, the opposite has happened - Labour/Brown turned a blind eye to avoidance/evasion, the Tories have tackled it.

Uniongirl · 17/12/2019 14:07

Nothing has changed you do not get credits for NI if you are working and below level to pay or not working at all. You can claim HRP Home Responsibilities Protection if you are main recipient of Child Benefit or Carers Allowance. However must have minimum number of years paid NI to count towards pension. Not sure if this will change but as Pension Age continually rising not sure what future will hold

lindyloo57 · 17/12/2019 13:26

You don't get credits if you have gaps, I am 59 and only have 24 years stamps from child benefits and some from working, I have only worked part time after my children had grown up and never claimed benefits, my DH still works full time.

BerriesAndPineCones · 17/12/2019 09:39

This is awful, as a lot of people will only be marginally better off, but unless they are receiving an eligible benefit, won't be receiving pension credits. Class 3 NI can be paid voluntarily, but at £14.10 per week will be difficult for a lot of people to manage
I think you are right. Of course it should be no surprise to anyone that Boris Johnson is not about helping people on a low income. Helping wealthy tax evaders yes.

furrytoebean · 17/12/2019 09:37

Personally I think this is the first step in scrapping the NHS and state pension

I agree.

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furrytoebean · 17/12/2019 09:26

sosick

Are you sure that applies to national insurance and not just income tax?

The information I can find is saying the limit is per job.

This is what Low Incomes Tax Reform Group Say

As well as tax, you might have to pay some National Insurance contributions (NIC) on income from another job. However National Insurance operates in a different way from income tax. With tax there is a single tax-free amount available per person per tax year. For National Insurance there is a new limit for each job so long as it is with a different employer. The limit is £166 per week (2019/20).
Example: Sandra has two jobs with different employers. In her main job she earns £195 per week. In her second job she earns £55 per week. In the first job she will pay £3.48 per week in National Insurance – 12% on £195 minus £166. In the second job she will pay no National Insurance as her earnings in that job are less than £166 in the week. The fact she is working two jobs is not taken into consideration for NIC like it is for tax. Her NIC liabilities for her two jobs are calculated totally independently from each other and are not compared to an overall annual amount, like for tax.
If you earn above the Lower Earnings Limit in any one job (£118 per week for 2019/20), and below the NIC threshold of £166 per week, you are credited with NIC, even though you do not have to actually pay NIC. These credits count towards your contributions record (for state pension, and other contributions based benefits).
If you do not earn at least the Lower Earnings Limit in any one job (£118 in 2019/20), you will not get any NIC credits. If this is the case and you do not get credits for any other reason (e.g. because you are claiming child benefit) you may want to consider making Class 3 voluntary NIC payments to help protect your contributions record.
You can find out more about NIC credits and making voluntary contributions on our website:
www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/tax-basics/what-national-insurance

taxaid.org.uk/guides/information/an-introduction-to-income-tax-national-insurance-and-tax-credits/national-insurance/national-insurance-for-employees-and-employers/national-insurance-with-more-than-one-job

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Sososick · 17/12/2019 09:10

@furrytoebean it's not per job, it's per earnings. If you have a second job you're supposed to fill out a p46 when you start, which allocates a different tax code and splits the tax/ni across all income.

This is awful, as a lot of people will only be marginally better off, but unless they are receiving an eligible benefit, won't be receiving pension credits. Class 3 NI can be paid voluntarily, but at £14.10 per week will be difficult for a lot of people to manage.

Personally I think this is the first step in scrapping the NHS and state pension

furrytoebean · 17/12/2019 08:35

The people who loose out are people who either don’t work or are self employed.

Or who work but only part time and don't claim benefits.
Or work but have two jobs (as the threshold is per job).

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FormerlyFrikadela01 · 17/12/2019 08:21

I have incomplete years from when I was a student and only working part time. I didnt make them up because even without them I will have worked more than enough years to qualify. However I do think people need to be aware of this as like pp said bot everyone earning below the threshold has it made up from benefits

furrytoebean · 17/12/2019 08:15

I would check lady Because it's not done by how much you pay but by how many years you've paid.

It's quite easy to check.

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furrytoebean · 17/12/2019 08:14

People earning below the threshold will be credited. It's a good thing

I'm not sure how this is true. Some people below the threshold are credited, not everyone. You have to either be a carer or receiving benefits.

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BerriesAndPineCones · 17/12/2019 07:40

Yes if you've got a child under 12. www.gov.uk/child-benefit/what-youll-get

SuzeBr · 17/12/2019 06:52

If you get child benefit do you not get NI credit?

LadyAllegraImelda · 17/12/2019 06:26

I opted out all those years ago but not sure how it affects things in real terms, I've since paid a ton of NI so I'm hoping it evens out somehow.

Pixxie7 · 17/12/2019 05:31

I think you will find that people on JSA get it paid and employees is paid by their employer as well. The people who loose out are people who either don’t work or are self employed.

Happysummer · 16/12/2019 22:54

Pretty sure SAHM can get a maximum of 10 years credits if looking after a minor with no earnings.

As another said, it's the Lower Earnings threshold that matters for pension credit, not the Primary Threshold (when you actually start paying NI).

Always check your personal tax account online to see what your complete years are. You'll need an HMRC gateway account but it's worth setting up to see all benefits, tax payments, pension record etc.

Roddys · 16/12/2019 22:00

Its an even better thing for company directors paying their family members from their corporations so that even more can be hidden from paying any tax or ni

CalleighDoodle · 16/12/2019 21:57

Ive incomplete years while at uni. I didnt realise until way past the time i could do something about it.

Surfskatefamily · 16/12/2019 21:54

The incomplete years are where you've had gaps and not been claiming a benefit that automatically credits your NI.

People earning below the threshold will be credited. It's a good thing

Baaaahhhhh · 16/12/2019 15:32

I have been a SAHM for years, but checked my record recently and have 36 years, so I must have picked up credits for claiming child benefit. I did however lose some pension value due to contracting out. So, you win some, you lose some!

furrytoebean · 16/12/2019 15:28

Exactly grass
Lots of people earning below the threshold won't be eligible because they live with a partner but then if they ever split up they'll have holes, or even if they don't only one of them will be eligible.

I think you have to actively apply for the careers credits too so how many women are taking time off to look after relatives unaware it might affect their pension.

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