I have never felt so bleak

Do you believe all the propaganda you read in the media or just the stuff about Corbyn?
It’s more complicated than the daily fail portray it. Use a range of media sources and use your brain and start thinking for yourself. Is this really true? Or is this what rich people want me to believe so that I keep voting their mates into power which keeps me poorer than them.

This idea that those who don't think the same as you are somehow less enlightened, more ignorant etc. is precisely how the Left has alienated people. It is intellectual arrogance of the highest order.

ThePlantsitter

But there comes a point when people are voting for things that should not be accepted as 'point of view'.
Who decides this Plantsitter?

(whether you are racist or not BJ's government is)
This is what I mean. These positions you start from so full of labels, this isn't good for debate, or anyone's own position or mental health.

I'd encourage you exactly as I encouraged OP. Debate with people by all means, but stop the pre-assumed labels, it doesn't do anything for your argument or for you, the outcome is only negative and you weaken your position instantly.

In relation to Corbyn and the IRA - from Channel4 factcheck in 2017/8:

'The Labour leader has been less forthcoming about his contact with people actually convicted of terror offences, although some of these meetings are well documented too.

In October 1984, two weeks after an IRA bomb killed five at the Tory Party conference in Brighton, Corbyn invited convicted IRA volunteers Linda Quigley and Gerry MacLochlainn to the House of Commons. It caused uproar at the time.

But in an interview with the BBC’s Andrew Neil last week, Mr Corbyn said: “I never met the IRA. I obviously did meet people from Sinn Fein, as indeed I met people from other organisations, and I always made the point that there had to be a dialogue and a peace process.”

On Sunday, in an interview with ITV’s Robert Peston, he said: “I have not spoken to the IRA… I’ve met former prisoners who told me they were not in the IRA.”'

And yet in spite of the bridge building he had done with the IRA, he wasn't needed to be involved in the negotiation of the GFA. Go figure.

Normally I would agree with you Devereux. But there comes a point when people are voting for things that should not be accepted as 'point of view'. Nationalism, racism (whether you are racist or not BJ's government is) and the slide of a portion of our people into poverty and death should not be brushed off as a disagreement.

I hope fervently I am wrong about the Tories but I don't think so.

OP, your desire to find others with the same view so you may live in an echo chamber won't do much for your mental health.

Might I suggest a different first step? You say you didn't realise so many people felt the way they do. Why do you think that is? It's quite difficult to have not realised how 17.4 million people felt. As a first step, don't only look only for others who suffer from your own negative condition, be open to all and discuss, debate and listen to others without labelling them before they have uttered a word to you.

It will free you, it will make you mentally healthier, and the bonus is it will probably make you a nicer person too.

Its true I’m not in the top 10%. If I was I would feel thoroughly ashamed that I was profiting whilst others who working just as hard were suffering.
But I’m glad I don't get my kicks by putting other people down.

Have the tories have convinced you we can all be in the top 10% youknowitmakessensedunnit?

that's bollocks, but perhaps if you tried a bit harder you could make the top 10%.

Tories are in so we’ve all lost. Except for the top 10%.

you lost, get over it

Why do you think that is?
Because by condemning all violence he was saying violence on either side was unacceptable. Because condemning the IRA and not talking got politicians nowhere and people kept dying. Because like many others at the time, like Mo Mowlam, he knew that had to talk to Sinn Fein in order to get the Good Friday Agreement. Which has saved lives.
Do you believe all the propaganda you read in the media or just the stuff about Corbyn?
It’s more complicated than the daily fail portray it. Use a range of media sources and use your brain and start thinking for yourself. Is this really true? Or is this what rich people want me to believe so that I keep voting their mates into power which keeps me poorer than them.

Corbyn said he opposed all violence. The IRA were violent terrorists. What more does he have to say?

He needed to say he OPPOSED IRA TERRORISM.

He was asked many many times and he always refused to condem the IRA. Why do you think that is? Its a pathetic excuse to say he is against all violence because that doesn't acknowledge that he thinks the IRA were violent terrorists.

So the only conclusion voters could come to that he was indeed a terrorist sympathiser. And the fact that he refused to resign just shows that he still doesn't get it.

I moved from yorkshire to London 15 years ago and I tell you what, all this lazy language like 'remoaners' and 'Yorkshireman' makes me glad I have no intention of ever moving back there. Johnson and his cronies have lied and lied some more. If you think his promises mean anything ir Brexit it's going to be great for Yorkshire you just haven't been paying attention.

And this reaction to somebody saying they feel bleak is just fucking bloody minded. But don't worry, Boris Johnson's going to heal this rift. Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Op, I read your posts and feel like this...🤦‍♀️

It’s all very melodramatic, very accusatory and getting rather dull.

I’ll tell you why I didn’t vote Corbyn:

1. Just like the old ‘We’ll give free tuition to students policy’, which funnily enough didn’t raise its nonsense head this time around, most of the labour policies were bollocks. They could never have afforded their own manifesto without spectacular borrowing, which we’d have to pay for down the line.

1. The party have gone too far to the left. The U.K. is not that left.

1. Emily Thornberry.

1. Momentum.

I have a very mixed family; Caribbean , Asian, Italian and Irish. Racism is not the reason people voted against labour.

So pull up your big girl pants and get on with it, because the more people try to spread hateful lies about other voters, the more resolve we’re going to have.

Until labour shifts to the centre they are not electable. Not enough people want trades union or Momentum involvement.

The joke that people vote Conservative for themselves alone! All those on benefits noted how? For Labour in my family and not one of them working. Cake and eat it was the Labour promise with others paying! The country said no.

There is a need for a credible centrist party. It must appeal to the middle ground in the swing seats. The aspirational as well as the left behind. Tony Blair managed it but it’s no good dithering over Brexit and having unaffordable policies.

Labour was right to say Brexit will harm those worse off but they were not believed by those worse off! You only have to see the anger in deprived areas to know this. Plus JC is a puppet and a dinosaur. People didn’t want that either.

My annoyance is at the Labour Party for over egging the manifesto. And it still is when I see that they will not learn from the defeat and understand what people thought of their policies.

The despair I feel OP is the mistakes the Labour Party made in this election.

As someone else posted on another thread, if you tell 17 million people they are thick, ignorant and racist, they’re not going to vote for you.

Of course Johnson could say he won’t sell the NHS - parts of it are already sold. Our blood service was sold for 200 odd million to a hedge fund headed by Mitt Romney, and later sold to the Chinese for 800 million. Although the 999 service is still under the NHS, but patient transport is privately run as are other parts. Can’t understand why that was never mentioned.

Neither did they sell nationalisation particularly well. About 17 of our train companies are run by State owned Railways - owned by the Germans, French, Dutch and now China has bought some. If other countries can run our railways, then surely so can we.

Similarly, it's difficult to take back control (always had control of our borders) but as some of our Utilities - Electric and water - are foreign owned we can’t have control. And didn't Labour introduce a points based immigration system?

In our area they were given a golden opportunity to make political capital out of Matt Hancock. He was filmed standing in the grounds of our local hospital, alongside the MP, clearing stating, ‘this is where we’re building a new hospital.’ Locals know in 2018 it was agreed to build a 22 bed extension, not a brand new hospital.

The Labour Party organised by Alistair Campbell would’ve made enormous capital out of all those.

If your criteria is a failing health service, an education system we think is failing but the SNP stopped checking, a centralised police service so you phone up from the borders and talk to people in Aberdeen.

"I cannot function and I don't want to carry on like this"

Gosh. I hope you never experience any real problems

Exactly. Haven’t even started to leave

The sky didn't fall down.

We haven't left yet!

Hey, all you remoaners - get a life! The country have voted.

THREE TIMES - FFS!!!

2016 - We want out!
2017 - The two largest parties, Tory and Labour promised to implement Article 50 in their manifestos.
2019 - If you still didn't get the message (because you're living in fantasy land) a big slap in the face to wake you up!

The UK didn't have a meltdown economically since 2016. The sky didn't fall down. Instead, I've wasted my money on a white elephant of a solid concrete bunker built at my back garden in anticipation of war like that idiot Cameron told me we were going to have.

On the contrary, I see since 12 December 2019 the Pound going from strength to strength against all the major world currencies. Boris reassuring me the NHS is staying put - not that I believe for one moment the scare-mongering nonsense that it's going to be sold to the Americans - and will have 50,000 more nurses and 6000(?) additional doctors coupled with 40 brand new hospitals to make the NHS even greater!

And that's not to mention The Donald telling me the USA will sign trade deals with the UK, three; five or maybe even ten times bigger than what we have with the EU. Oh, and I haven't even mentioned the markets of the Chinese and Indian economies yet (never mind the rest of the world) now that we are being unshackled from the pathetic little EU market.

Floreat Alexander Boris de Pfeffel!

Everything @FainaSnowChild has said.

Op you have every right to feel disappointed and I'm sorry you're struggling so much, but the left will NEVER convert ANYONE to its cause with that mindset. You will continue to be validated by those who already vote the same way as you, and that's it. Until the left are prepared to hear the legitimate concerns of ordinary people Labour will be lost.

In terms of the popular vote, the Tory vote share only went up 1.2%, the effect was just greatly magnified by FPTP. Labour's vote share went down 7.9% but the Lib Dems were the main beneficiary with an increase in 4.2% of the popular vote.

I came on to post this. I read that this translated as only 200,000 more people voted Conservative in this election than the previous one which resulted in a landslide majority. Over 1 million more people voted Lib Dem in this election but they actually lost a seat. So in reality, not that many people have actually changed into Conservative supporters, they have just been concentrated in particular geographic areas.

Google the electoral reform society and join their campaign for something pro-active to do.