Labour policies unrealistic

There will certainly be less of a rich / poor divide as anyone really rich will flee the country taking their money with them.

Look to Scotland to see what left-wing policies do to the NHS. It's like they use Yes, Minister as a training video. The new children's hospital in Edinburgh was two weeks from opening when the plug was pooled because of raw sewage leaking in. It might open in a year or so, but Holyrood is still handing millions to the contractors and the hospital is staffed.

Private companies are being brought in with temporary operating theatres and their own surgeons to do routine ops.

Scans and X-rays are being farmed out to Australian and Indian companies to analyse.

I can't take criticisms of the Labour manifesto seriously when they cite Labour causing austerity. It was known at the time that austerity is one of the worst things you can do in response to financial crisis (they teach it, in detail in GCSE history and university level economics) and its easy to Google and see that it was a complete failure. It was never a necessity, it was an ideological choice.

I'm not on board with everything, but I think Tory policies are far more damaging.

That Paul Johnson from the IFS has a total monopoly on TV

Who actually are the IFS? You see them quoted a lot, and think, ‘ooh, they are independent’, but are they really?

Even if we do leave we can still have a system similar to Norway if that's what we are aiming for.

One difference between us and Norway is that Norway has kept the proceeds of the oil found off their shores in a trust and spends only the interest gained on projects to benefit their citizens. The UK spent theirs, had a strong GB pound for a while and there is precious little left

Tiddle

It's funny you should say that about Scandinavian countries. When I've compared their way of life (particularly with wages and childcare) it is much more favourable. Even if we do leave we can still have a system similar to Norway if that's what we are aiming for. It just seems much more fairer and centred towards getting the best out of people but by facilitating their development and providing a decent work life balance, rather than just trying to squeeze every penny out of them by shoving them into crap situations. It's a more supportive approach, rather than authoritarian.

I recommend that anyone concerned about Labour's economic strategy looks up leading economists' views of the Labour manifesto. That Paul Johnson from the IFS has a total monopoly on TV and that is never fair or representative. Many leading economists have reacted positively to Labour's plans, in fact saying they don't even go far enough re. Ambition.
For me, the idea of bringing us closer in line to the way Scandinavia's state functions is precisely where I want to be. I have relatives that have moved to Sweden and Denmark and it is just a much fairer and more democratic society.
As others have said, it is hard to envision what this could be like as we have lived with Tory or neolibera ideas for so long it has been drilled into us that there is no alternative. But there is!

Agree with you getmeacupoftea and agree you might not like Labour, but you still don't have to vote Tory. When you actually look at the manifestos, most are spending, not cutting, including Tories, so are they all wrong?

As many people have posted on here, we have had years of austerity which has not improved national debt at all, but many people have got richer. The way the economy is managed is terrible. It is not to benefit all of the country. I think after Christmas when all the retail companies have had a poor performance and are going bust with pepe losing jobs, and you then see the vultures swoop in buying them all up and monopolising the high street, you will realise just how bad it has got. They are currently selling off dead bits of their businesses to free up cash to do this. It's obvious what is coming.

I actually think that what Labour are about to do is more likely to work than maintaining the status quo. The tories have fudged their numbers so much over the years, it is much worse than people think. That's why the Tories have suddenly found the magic money tree after declaring we have no money. It is glaringly obvious now with things falling apart and schools asking for money to keep functioning that they can't keep cutting funding without people getting angry. However I still don't trust them, and I think we still won't see much of the investment. The money will end up in the wrong hands as usual.

I don't know why people worry about houses being built. Bit unkind to those of us who need housing. Agree that the housing needs to be energy efficient and well built, but I wouldn't say more affordable housing is a bad thing at all.

And as for Brexit, well, I think it is right to remain neutral and give us the chance to decide. Why the obsession with taking sides and being in a gang? They are not teenagers.

Despite the above still not sure who to vote for yet though!

A simple lesson for the economically challenged - austerity wass about the deficit not the debt.

velveteenfruitbowl I'm not sure what parallel universe you're living in but I think you need to take a good look around you and see for yourself what suffering the tories have caused. Privatisation benefits no one but the rich. Most other successful economies realised this long ago. Nationising services is in the best interest of the public and will create large numbers of jobs. A green revolution will create jobs. A properly funded NHS will create jobs.
I don't think a lot of people realise quite how short staffed the NHS is. Currently we are short of 40,000 nurses, 20,000 doctors and the total staff shortfall amounts to over 125,000. This is the tories' legacy. They have caused this by scrapping nursing bursaries, deliberate underfunding, creating a hostile environment for immigrants and, of course, brexit.
This is not accidental. It is a deliberate destruction of our NHS. People are dying every day because there aren't enough staff. I've seen it with my own eyes when I was unfortunate enough to get concussion recently. Ambulances unable to off load because the corridors are full of patients on trollies. A&E waiting rooms so full there are no seats. People on the floor, some bleeding, crying out in pain. A waiting room filled with the stench of vomit. Actual shit on the floor. A twelve hour wait to be seen by a doctor. It is terrifying and heartbreaking.

Having everyone get broadband for free through?? Really? That £30 per month will just be raised through taxes another way.

I don't pay £30 per month for high speed broadband, I pay £20. The actual amount paid to openreach to run the lines is a fraction of that and openreach make a good profit as well. Some people pay much more than £30 per month for the same service as me. All that profit does not go back to the government which subsidised the cables in the first place.

I don't know if Corbyn can do it, but economic theory would say that a government can provide a collective good, in a natural monopoly, with high capital costs, more efficiently than a private company.

His plan may be ambitious but it's far from silly.

Even IF there were a desperate need to claw in money it's completely disgraceful taking it from the very poorest in society rather than from those who can well afford it and benefit most from a well run country.

The well-off already pay the majority of the cost of the welfare state under the current system. HTH

My favourite is the house building, I've said many times such a programme would be a huge boost to the country in many ways.

Overall I like all the proposed plans,

As for the ridiculous perpetuation of the MYTH that tories are better for the economy and had to implement austerity the spreading of that MYTH needs to stop!

It's been disproven numerous times it is complete nonsense!

Even IF there were a desperate need to claw in money it's completely disgraceful taking it from the very poorest in society rather than from those who can well afford it and benefit most from a well run country.

Nonews which country do you live in, if you don’t mind answering?

Ah yes - if you can’t attack the facts, attack the messenger. Classic.

I'm happy to live in a country where a lot of services are nationalised and they all work well. The teachers are respected and paid well, kids get free school meals - all of them - and education for university students is free. Education is thought of as important and there are loads of adult education courses available for really small amounts. Benefits system works well and stops poverty from becoming a real issue. Taxes are high, but no one minds too much as things just work, streets are clean, services are really good and everyone benefits from all these things.

The IFS has longstanding links to the Conservative Party, so I would be wary about anything they said against Labour. Their points re: SJ’s costing were cursory at best to appear impartial. But in reality they were being used as a mouthpiece by the Tory Party.

I would also point out that the way Labour has framed it’s policies as good for the nation means big companies that need the UK market can’t leave without it severely impacting their reputation.

Much like Labour’s inability to cost its nationalisations, the level of gullibility necessary to believe their “framing” is unquantifiable, but it’s massive

I would also point out that the way Labour has framed it’s policies as good for the nation means big companies that need the UK market can’t leave without it severely impacting their reputation.

Labour want to bring the UK in line with European countries in terms of public spending / taxation in proportion to GDP, and so will probably be able to find the money if they get a majority. The Tories want to turn the UK into a low tax haven to ‘compete’ for business with Europe, and so don’t want to spend or find any money.

In actuality Labour policies are more realistic and could potentially provide us with better trade deals with European countries as our institutions / infrastructure will be on a par with them. Remember one of the reasons why Germany is so much more productive than the UK is because they have far better internet infrastructure.

And yet would bring the uk inline with the majority of other European countries in terms of tax @CendrillonSings. Where are all the flocks of businesses leaving en mass due to paying their fair share of tax?